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Re: Outposts

Posted: Mon Mar 12, 2007 3:24 pm
by kyesmith
ajsuk wrote:Every weekend recently OPs are changing hands.

As for rewards, we've gone over this before time and again...
Why would you fight for something which isn't going to aid you in some way, and something thats not worth the effort outposts require?
Every weekend RECENTLY yes, i dont disagree the rewards need to be worth fighting for, but currently the OPs owned by the KA produce more cats than you can use, yes you can disagree with this but from the people ive spoken with inside the KA they all say they have more than they will use, in one case they have created a 3rd GH just to store cats in....
I love the materials the outposts produce, increase the amount of materials they make, considerably decrease the amount of cats they produce, if you own a Q250 outpost add 250 hp, stam, sap and focus to each guild member, something like that. Thats still worth fighting for but wont make it harder and harder as time goes on for people to lose their outpost...

Re: Outposts

Posted: Mon Mar 12, 2007 3:30 pm
by xfluffee
ajsuk wrote:Every weekend recently OPs are changing hands.
In one direction only.
ajsuk wrote:As for rewards, we've gone over this before time and again...
Why would you fight for something which isn't going to aid you in some way, and something thats not worth the effort outposts require?
To win.

Re: Outposts

Posted: Mon Mar 12, 2007 3:32 pm
by ajsuk
But it'll still make it "harder and harder" aslong as we're getting more and your not, going by that logic.

Each new member that comes along gets a stat boost because they hold a stat-boosting OP.
Each new member that comes along levels faster because his/her guild has a cat producing OP.

That side still has the advantage, what difference does it make?

Ok you can adjust cat flow or whatever, but you'll still be without it. @.o

Theres no logic.

Re: Outposts

Posted: Mon Mar 12, 2007 3:33 pm
by ajsuk
xfluffee wrote:In one direction only.
Not true.
xfluffee wrote: To win.
eh? People like there to be a point in doing something...

Re: Outposts

Posted: Mon Mar 12, 2007 3:40 pm
by kyesmith
ajsuk wrote:But it'll still make it "harder and harder" aslong as we're getting more and your not, going by that logic.

Each new member that comes along gets a stat boost because they hold a stat-boosting OP.
Each new member that comes along levels faster because his/her guild has a cat producing OP.

That side still has the advantage, what difference does it make?

Ok you can adjust cat flow or whatever, but you'll still be without it. @.o

Theres no logic.
erm, 250 extra stats or unlimited double exp, its freakin obvious which is going to make the most impact...
we both think very differently regarding the state of OP wars, i am looking for suggestions on possible improvements, you think the current situation is fine, i dont. Unless you have a serious idea regarding outposts please dont reply, we can debate this all day long and as much as i would love to waste my time arguing my case, i'd much rather have serious ideas brought up and this thread not reduced to flames..

Re: Outposts

Posted: Mon Mar 12, 2007 3:44 pm
by mrshad
kyesmith wrote:You honestly think its good for the game to have one "super guild" owning all the outposts when they only make up lets say a 50% population?

I hate to say "I told ya so...."

No wait...I LOVE IT!

This is the very nature of PvP for land. The most powerful guild/faction/alliance/etc ends up owning just about everything. Aris has been remarkable in the cooperation and restraint that has been shown. But, in the end, this is the only way it could possibly play out.

Every PvP for land system I have ever heard of has turned out like this.

As to how to fix it...well...that would take development and changes and we all know *that* won't happen. The other servers have been owned by the kami for months (strangely, hardly anyone complains about the kami dominance of Cho). If it were going to be improved, it would have been by now.

But, let's say (because I enjoy the conversation) we had some magicall pot of money, and a company that cared about the game enough to fix it. Any idea that involves limiting fighting for the OP (of defending it from mauraders) to just the two guilds involved won't work. Why? Two reasons:

1. The largest Guild would end up owning everything (way worse than the largest alliance).
2. Guild leaders would be replaced by alts on the roster, and players would just shift guilds to help thier allies.

Any idea that invlovles limiting battles to a certain number of players on each side won't work, as it limits player involvement to the same people every time, and the side that can field the most armies can simply show up at multiple battles at the same time.

Any idea that tries to limit which OPs a guild can own based on race or geography can't work, because how would the game decide? Will it be 'where the GH is' or 'which race are the majority of the members' or 'to which civ have they declaired thier allegience?' All of those are pretty easy to change. 10 million for a new GH is less than the cost to challenge an outpost. A few alt characters can sway the racial make up of a guild. And a couple hour of quests, and all the sudden they are part of a new civ.

Some sort of controll on concurrent battles PLUS limiting the fight to the one guild PLUS limiting the numbers might make it more "balanced" (whatever that means this week). But it would limit the player actions to the point that almost no one would care.
riveit wrote: I've always wanted more dynamism in the outpost system. A stagnant distribution of outposts is no fun and leads to big imbalances and belief in ownership of outposts. One of my favorite ideas is that once a week, a new outpost becomes available for drilling. The first one to notice it and declare can take it from marauders. A day later or so, an established drill dries up. Such a mechanism would allow outposts to move around somewhat without huge battles between alliances. Of course, the alliance battles would still occur.
This is the best idea so far.

Re: Outposts

Posted: Mon Mar 12, 2007 3:45 pm
by xfluffee
ajsuk wrote:Not true.
(For Arispotle, at least):

Feb 11: Whirling Stronghold -> Nexus (Kami)
Feb 26: Woodburn Magic Pole -> OotN (Kara)
Mar 4: Windyway Workshop -> Apostles (Kara)
Mar 6: Woodburn Stronghold / Whirling Stronghold (swapped owners between Kami)
Mar 12: Whirling Stronghold -> GoJ (Kara)

Pending battle
Mar 12: Sai-Shun, owned by Kami, Kara won first round.
ajsuk wrote:eh? People like there to be a point in doing something...
Heh. Yeah. Why win? What's the point in that?

Re: Outposts

Posted: Mon Mar 12, 2007 3:49 pm
by audrimas
Fair system for everyone :) remove cats and mats from OPs (yap, no more PvP cause only ~5% of server population fight for fun and ~95% for cats). Everyone can have, lets say 5 stacks of cats every week, and some OP mats your choise too. They will appear in your apartment at beginning of every week :) You want this metod? (Btw do this and you will get 10x more "ganks" in PR).

I would like myself to find some way we all can have fun in PvP without any reward, just for fun. But i ask myself how many ppl will come? Will be like in Yrk or Diron, 2 vs 1 or 5 vs 3. In all my playing time i remember only 3-4 10+ vs 10+ figths.

(off topic, you dont need to read further)
You know, you dont need cats to lvl up. If you not happy with kara holding more OPs than kami and dont want to do anything except whine here you are free not to fight in any OP. Quit OP activity and play without cats. Just play the game instead of "searching" how to make it "fair".

Re: Outposts

Posted: Mon Mar 12, 2007 3:55 pm
by mrshad
audrimas wrote: I would like myself to find some way we all can have fun in PvP without any reward, just for fun.

Hardly any of us PvP "just for fun" (there are some of you who dig it, and that's cool, but most of the server does not); I show up at OP fights, not because I like pwning teh kami n00bs, but because I like to hang with my friends.

So, yeah, if you remove the tangible reward from OPs/PvP, you won't get any involvment.

Re: Outposts

Posted: Mon Mar 12, 2007 3:56 pm
by ajsuk
RE: Kye
Yes, it would make an impact. It's also not much different to just reducing cats produced is it.

Either way, the winning side would still have an advantage, just less of one, and probably one not worth fighting for if my suspicions are correct. How is that of any use?