Ryzom

sprite wrote:Spires are hardly a balancing mechanism... They're either a "winning mechanism" or just another aspect to the fight, depending on how you approach them. If you see them as a balancer I think you'll be sorely disappointed when they come out, unless they drastically change them from the description we've got so far.

if i'm not mistaken, then attacking spire is just gathering your force and do it.
so, if one faction has too many spires, other faction players could probably duo them

AFAIK, The more spires have one faction, more advantages will have that faction in that area. But the HP of spires remain the same, so the more spires you have, most weak will they be.

I don't see that as a faction balancer. Not at all.

Witch I see is as a valve for PvP; that is, the OP thing will become less important, and as far the spires attack could be done at any moment, it will raise less legitimate complaints. Also, the politics will be more complicated. I.E, what will happen to the players belonging to an alliance but being of opposite faction when a spire denies tping to some regions witch they have friends and allies?, or maybe easier, because at the end, people will change the factionement to be accord with their alliance.

After a time I think that the teleports (If the enemy faction have an spire, you can't teleport that region) issue will become even more important than the OPs.

But this raise a more strong concern...

With makes this community so good is that, even if we figth in OP wars each other, you can have good friends and hunt side to side with people in other factions. There are, in neutral territories, a general goodwill (Most of ppl rez other faction ppl, and so on), and, with the becoming os spires that will end.

Void is a good example of this. If it becomes kami or kara, and the other faction tp is lost, this kind of goodwill, this good interaction in hunting between factions will end, and a very important part of who makes this community as good as it is will be lost. The hunting grounds will not be shared by factions anymore.

That's the worst part I can see in spires.

mithur wrote:...If the enemy faction have an spire, you can't teleport that region...

That's how the spires are a faction balancing mechanism where outpost battles are concerned. Having no nearby spawn point makes an outpost battle much more difficult.

jamela wrote:That's how the spires are a faction balancing mechanism where outpost battles are concerned. Having no nearby spawn point makes an outpost battle much more difficult.

How would that affect gameplay when one side or the other owns most of the spires, for whatever reason?

How many people on the opposing side would be all happy about it, and enjoy walking for two hours through high-level aggro to get to a dig spot, or to their guild hall, or for any other reason? How would that affect choices people make in-game? Wouldn't that serve as a self-perpetuating artificial limitation of choices people can make?

If there is no way to prevent an imbalance in power from affecting gameplay, then either the idea must be scrapped, or must be greatly redesigned.


My suggestion for Outposts is to scrap the bonuses they offer to the owning guild. They can still be sources for large PvP battles, but the reward for an Outpost battle should be the battle itself, and "bragging rights" to having won. Owning an Outpost should not convey any special status. The primary reason: there is presently no way to prevent an imbalance in power from affecting the gameplay where Outposts are concerned.

The bonuses offered by Outposts can be made available by other means, scaling the difficulty to match the particular bonus.

I have been pushing for balance, but history has shown time and again that human nature is such that once there is equality, one person or side will want to be "more equal" than the other, and greed will kick in. I say this no matter if Kami is ahead or Karavan is ahead. All humans are equally susceptible to being affected by human nature.

xfluffee wrote: My suggestion for Outposts is to scrap the bonuses they offer to the owning guild. They can still be sources for large PvP battles, but the reward for an Outpost battle should be the battle itself, and "bragging rights" to having won. Owning an Outpost should not convey any special status.

No one would fight for them then. If there were no benifit, why bother, it takes time and stress to take or hold an OP. If it were just for bragging rights, who would care?

The same end could be accomplished by activating a lot more outposts. if there were enough that every guild could have one, no one would fight over them.

jamela wrote:That's how the spires are a faction balancing mechanism where outpost battles are concerned. Having no nearby spawn point makes an outpost battle much more difficult.

Wouldn't that increase imbalance? If the more powerful side can limit where the less powerful side can 'port to, it is easier for the powerful side to keep thier land.

Spires limiting teleporters are a bad idea.

mrshad wrote:No one would fight for them then. If there were no benifit, why bother, it takes time and stress to take or hold an OP. If it were just for bragging rights, who would care?

How many people tag up and fight in FH? Yrk? Or anywhere else?

There are no benefits, just the warm fuzzy feeling that you won and kicked the other side out of the city or area for a time.

The people who would fight at Outpost battles are the ones who like PvP and who like it in big battles. It would still be a scheduled, organized battle, but it would be for FUN, and not because owning one gives your guild or faction a bonus in the PvE world. Isn't the game supposed to be about fun?

Those who do not like PvP or who do not like large-scale battles would not feel obligated to participate, just to gain (or keep from losing) benefits that help them or their guild or their faction outside of PvP action. They could stick to the type of play that they enjoy. Remember, fun for you may not be not fun for me.

mrshad wrote:The same end could be accomplished by activating a lot more outposts. if there were enough that every guild could have one, no one would fight over them.

How many guilds have multiple Outposts on Arispotle? I'm inclined to believe that number would increase, not decrease, if numbers of Outposts were increased. Look at Cho's Outpost ownership for an even better example.

Remember, the tendancy is toward greed and selfishness, not generosity and kindness. People are never satisfied with what they have, whether in Ryzom or in real life.

I'm still against spires and cant see how limiting tp's will help anything. I would not like that side of the game forced upon non-pvp players.

now spires that give a bonus to the playerdepending on how many you own would be good

1 spire - extra 100 hp/sap/stam/focus all factioned players in region
2 spire - extra 200 hp/sap/stam/focus

and so on until max

maybe even let the faction vote once a week what bonus they would like

not a game killer, some reward for pvp players, nothing like double xp etc

sorry if someone else suggested this, I didnt read other posts in full

That's kinda how they are supposed to work, Jacko, except different spires have different bonuses - these have not been outlined to us - and the effect is only cumulative if regions are adjacent. Spires.

jamela wrote:That's kinda how they are supposed to work, Jacko, except different spires have different bonuses - these have not been outlined to us - and the effect is only cumulative if regions are adjacent. Spires.

but I'm guessing the bonuses get mixed and wont stack the way I describe

if faction could vote for all focus bonus it would add an element of politics i.e do we go for focus this week so we can dig, or do we hp to give us an advantage with an op battle, or do we go for stam becuase we are dumb

if you get what I mean