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Re: Fixing an economy
Posted: Wed Feb 28, 2007 5:45 am
by mithur
arfindel wrote:
A lot of people would love to have boutiques where to offer their crafted items. More than a money sink this would make a time sink and a beautiful one. Collateral cities with some exceptions have no use at all and could be put to very good job by allowing people to create their (instanced) shops there. It would give life to those abandonned cities, would make commerce much livelier and could also create new lore secondary lines around the products crafted in some places. I bet we would all go to Natae for Sehraci's boutique and to Windermeer for Icenn's weapons etc.
It needs in a first step the ability to buy (or rent) a visitable shop (may be identical to any appartment, nobody will suffer) with 2-3 personal vendors and in a second phase of implementation the possibility to decorate that shop by dropping objects.
This is the same idea of auctions, but a bit more complex. I like it too. It could be really great... and is true that cities like Avalae or Windemeer could use a little more of life. They are gosh towns.
Re: Fixing an economy
Posted: Wed Feb 28, 2007 6:16 am
by japamala
forever wrote:I really don't want to see a flood of junk grind crafted items on the NPC because it's the only way for a crafter to get dapper.
I don't mind.
it just means more selective shopping.
Re: Fixing an economy
Posted: Wed Feb 28, 2007 8:18 am
by dakhound
There is a perfectly good economy based upon mats
most of the uber rich are multi craft masters and spend a large portion of their time digging. For the lower level player dappers are a problem unless your guild keeps dropping you a few million occasionally. I might be one of the few who is currently happy with the situation. I dont personally ever carry or own large amounts of dapper despite being a master digger/crafter, I know if I wish to make some the potential is there and that is good enough for me.
its ok for you kyerna to suggest fixes but as a master heavy armour crafter and having the perks that come with it, its easy for you to suggest removing the sell to npc as you have no need to craft for xp anymore.
removing the button isnt the answer in my opinion, what is the answer I cannot guess and can offer no ideas (yes I have just bashed an idea without offering a solution for those who will pick on it).
Re: Fixing an economy
Posted: Wed Feb 28, 2007 9:18 am
by blaah
calel wrote:Therefor I suggest GF takes getting rid of the 'sell to npc button' into consideration; this button alone is the sole reason crafters are the richest persons around, this is where the lion's share of dappers gets brought into circulation.
if they want to nerf something, then they should start with penalizing ppl who are using npcs to store mats by making npc's greedy.
short version:
NPC: "Ok, you want me to sell this for 500k ? fine, as long as i get 250k".
bit longer:
if npc would give you 500k when sold to player, then npc will add 50% to that making final price to 750k.
if player wants it's item back, then player needs to pay 50% to npc.
harsh ? dont think so. especially when they make you press "I Agree" after showing how much you need to pay to get item back and how much does this item cost to player who wants to buy it. make the "I Agree" button disabled for 5 sec (and clear keyboard buffer too), so no accidents on pressint the button.
whoever wants to exploit npc to store mats, gets a nice dapper sink.
whoever wants to exploit hawkers on mat transfer, gets a nice dapper sink.
this is all possible, you just need to pay fair price to do it.
end lastly:
whoever wants to buy from npc, thinks twice and checks the stats or gets nice dapper sink.
ok.. on second though getting 50% from user who puts item to merchant works too. 250k to merchant, 500k from sale, 250k profit, but then it's penalizing all users and not just exploiters.
Re: Fixing an economy
Posted: Wed Feb 28, 2007 10:47 am
by wyeth
blaah wrote:if they want to nerf something, then they should start with penalizing ppl who are using npcs to store mats by making npc's greedy.
short version:
NPC: "Ok, you want me to sell this for 500k ? fine, as long as i get 250k".
bit longer:
if npc would give you 500k when sold to player, then npc will add 50% to that making final price to 750k.
if player wants it's item back, then player needs to pay 50% to npc.
harsh ? dont think so. especially when they make you press "I Agree" after showing how much you need to pay to get item back and how much does this item cost to player who wants to buy it. make the "I Agree" button disabled for 5 sec (and clear keyboard buffer too), so no accidents on pressint the button.
whoever wants to exploit npc to store mats, gets a nice dapper sink.
whoever wants to exploit hawkers on mat transfer, gets a nice dapper sink.
this is all possible, you just need to pay fair price to do it.
end lastly:
whoever wants to buy from npc, thinks twice and checks the stats or gets nice dapper sink.
ok.. on second though getting 50% from user who puts item to merchant works too. 250k to merchant, 500k from sale, 250k profit, but then it's penalizing all users and not just exploiters.
Before doing this devs have to fix few things.
First, differenciate the towns, i mean if i put something at the merchant in pyr
i should not be able to get it back in dyron.
Then fix the ql of towns, in dyron i should only find q200+ stuff and not less, in thesos only stuff between ql150 and 200, etc
An armour merchant should not be able to buy anything else than armour and same for every merchants.
Dont allow us to store mats more than 500% or 600%, but only mats.And in counter part allow us to hire boxes at raw merchants to store our mats. The boxes could have more or less bulk according to their cost.
And finally fix the hawkers. I mean their delivery sercice must be expensive specially when you want to store your mats.
And for your idea Blaah i dont think nerfing the merchant would save the economy. I would prefer to see more option when i sell something to players, like a service which would allow me to leave my stuff longer than 7 day at the merchant. Indeed this service would cost dappers.
Re: Fixing an economy
Posted: Wed Feb 28, 2007 10:58 am
by petej
blaah wrote:if they want to nerf something, then they should start with penalizing ppl who are using npcs to store mats by making npc's greedy.
short version:
NPC: "Ok, you want me to sell this for 500k ? fine, as long as i get 250k".
bit longer:
if npc would give you 500k when sold to player, then npc will add 50% to that making final price to 750k.
if player wants it's item back, then player needs to pay 50% to npc.
harsh ? dont think so. especially when they make you press "I Agree" after showing how much you need to pay to get item back and how much does this item cost to player who wants to buy it. make the "I Agree" button disabled for 5 sec (and clear keyboard buffer too), so no accidents on pressint the button.
whoever wants to exploit npc to store mats, gets a nice dapper sink.
whoever wants to exploit hawkers on mat transfer, gets a nice dapper sink.
this is all possible, you just need to pay fair price to do it.
end lastly:
whoever wants to buy from npc, thinks twice and checks the stats or gets nice dapper sink.
ok.. on second though getting 50% from user who puts item to merchant works too. 250k to merchant, 500k from sale, 250k profit, but then it's penalizing all users and not just exploiters.
Ummm you know its not an Exploit to store/transfer items via Hawkers , I thought it was originaly too and didnt do it until the official post saying it wasnt -which i cant find anymore
http://forums.ryzom.com/forum/showthread.php?t=14551&highlight=selling+hawkers
I do agree that they should levy a fee on transactions tho
Re: Fixing an economy
Posted: Wed Feb 28, 2007 12:31 pm
by blaah
petej wrote:Ummm you know its not an Exploit to store/transfer items via Hawkers , I thought it was originaly too and didnt do it until the official post saying it wasnt -which i cant find anymore
yes it's an exploit
just not bannable. (i also know that devs basicly said "ahh f it, let them do it. we cant prove it's storing anyway.")
edit: to make it clear, i dont have anything aginst ppl who store mats on npc or teleport them with hawker.
Re: Fixing an economy
Posted: Wed Feb 28, 2007 12:56 pm
by danolt
I do not think it should be a zero return for selling to the npc, I do like the idea of tweaking the amount paid per mat, instead of paying 1.5k per crafted mat it could be pushed down to 1.3k, if things are still to flush it can be lowered again. If we start to get more money sinks it can be raised back to 1.5k.
I imagine we can say the economy works fine all we want, but GF has identified it as a priority fix. They plan on doing something. I prefer something simple that can be adjusted easily.
Re: Fixing an economy
Posted: Wed Feb 28, 2007 1:26 pm
by forever
japamala wrote:I don't mind.
it just means more selective shopping.
You do realize there would be 1000s of the same item you would have to sort though to find anything good?
Re: Fixing an economy
Posted: Wed Feb 28, 2007 1:30 pm
by katriell
forever wrote:japamala wrote:forever wrote:I really don't want to see a flood of junk grind crafted items on the NPC because it's the only way for a crafter to get dapper.
I don't mind.
it just means more selective shopping.
You do realize there would be 1000s of the same item you would have to sort though to find anything good?
Further, the merchant window can only display a limited number (IIRC). If there's more than that, you completely miss viewing some items.