Ryzom

olepi wrote:Then they introduced Trials of Atlantis (or TOA), and most of the mobs dropped really good loot. Suddenly, almost every crafter was out of business. It was bad, really bad. And that was never fixed, so the economy was broken and stayed broken. Ruined is the word.

That was precisely when I cancelled my DAoC subscription.

rushin wrote:The poll is hopefully impartial, my viewpoint not Don’t give us uber items, give us plans to craft things. Enough damage has been done to the crafter community already. *waves finger sternly at dev's*

craft plans are bad idea unless those new plans require something that is accessible and limited from somewhere else (or from kitin lair) and requires s load of time/effort to get.

why ? take a week to grind to get all plans and never go back.

I can barely see a few reasons why they should drop (uber) items. Assume instead of already crafted items, they dropped supreme mats that can be used to craft. Other than camping issues, wat's the problem with this approach? a crafter (thus not completely breaking the chain of value) is needed.

Most dedicated "fighters" and "PvPers" I know know the value of a supreme boss mat, obtained after the completion of a "mission" (e.g. kill Kirokya). Isn't a fighter well rewarded getting the Kirokya shaft after the kill? most crafters only require the mats be gathered.

blaah wrote:craft plans are bad idea unless those new plans require something that is accessible and limited from somewhere else (or from kitin lair) and requires s load of time/effort to get.

why ? take a week to grind to get all plans and never go back.

if you meant never go back [to the kitin lair] how is that different to getting items? spend a week, get all the items, never go back.. At least with the plans you have ongoing (cover your eyes Jyudas) content creating the weapons/armor/jewels/etc

Although i have never played the game like that. getting something tangible is always secondary to exploring, having fun, whatever

But yes it would be nice if each plan needed a kitin material of some description so there was a need for the fighters to provide these..

For such a community that prizes itself on more open play, I am shocked that there is such a backlash against the idea of having a boss in the Kitin Lair drop some sort of nice reward. I think the majority of you are thinking in a very narrow way. That being that the drop automatically will become the newest uber item.

They added uber loot with Aen and the other tribe bosses. Did that kill the Ryzom crafting economy?

Instead of being so against the idea of making hard work rewarding why not come up with some ideas of what they could do?

This shouldn't just drop mats. That limits the usefulness of the reward to one profession of the game. Sure the others could sell it, but at that high of a level money is the last thing that is needed.

XP catalysts aren't that good either as xp isn't that big of an issue that high up.

So how do you deal with this?

Well you could have it drop a nice weapon. You simply have it so that the Kitin are guarding a treasure and it doesn't "drop" from them. You make it so the sword can only be used by level 200+ characters.

You could have it drop something that enhances player equipment attributes. Maybe you kill the Kitin boss and it drops an antennia. That can be used with any blade to make it sharper.

Or maybe it drops some sort of amber that lets you see the stats of a mob when you walk up to it.

If you are really unhappy with the idea of a drop, then come up with a reward besides mats that players will get when finishing the Kitin Lair.

New craft plans with different stats and strange new mats with different properties to use in them would be ideal, in my opinion.

Maybe we will find Kirokya's long lost cousin Kirokoo - he would motivate every boss hunter on Atys to race down there. Maybe all the great old lost bosses migrated down there? Zerkya, Kipukoo, Hornkan, Kibakan, Kizokoo, Lumkoo, Gubankya ...

The complex and intricate craft system in Ryzom is one its strongest appeals. I hope it doesn't get further undermined.

blaah wrote:why ? take a week to grind to get all plans and never go back.

I guess you mean that a crafter that learnt the plans has no reason to go back to the Lair, unlike other rewards which, degrading with time, enable this "everlasting content".

It is a valid point, in line with the "we can't produce content faster than you can consume it"

riveit wrote:The complex and intricate craft system in Ryzom is one its strongest appeals. I hope it doesn't get further undermined.

I agree wholeheartedly. Let's leave the economical issues caused from loot drops in other games IN other games.

riveit wrote:New craft plans with different stats and strange new mats with different properties to use in them would be ideal, in my opinion.

Ok. Lets say I am a level 200 melee. I kill the boss and get awarded a new level 200+ craft plan and some new mats to use with it. I didn't train up my craft tree though. So now I have a reward that is of no use for me.

This new area is for warriors, not for crafters. So the reward needs to be one that warriors will find useful, not crafters.

raynes wrote:For such a community that prizes itself on more open play, I am shocked that there is such a backlash against the idea of having a boss in the Kitin Lair drop some sort of nice reward. I think the majority of you are thinking in a very narrow way.

Narrow? I try not to, but I see the possible issues with this.

They added uber loot with Aen and the other tribe bosses. Did that kill the Ryzom crafting economy?

Yes, it did. And it hurt badly heavy armorers, maybe you did not notice it. Also, consider the effort of raising the 6 branches to lvl 240-250. Same as EP2 event shields, or pants. Same as event daggers (151 dmg > q250, at 60hpm with uber bonus for q "fine q200 dagger", fortunately they were one-time only)

Whole guilds were equipping team members with aen armors, armors that can only be matched by q250 with boss drops, and the effort to get one aen (despite several fumbled attempts from Nevrax to improve AI) is of order of magnitude lower than the crafted one. Other bosses were removed because easily exploitable. Aen was camped every 2 days. Guilds were filled woth them.

Instead of being so against the idea of making hard work rewarding why not come up with some ideas of what they could do?

We have (at least myself, personally), in other threads.

This shouldn't just drop mats. That limits the usefulness of the reward to one profession of the game. Sure the others could sell it, but at that high of a level money is the last thing that is needed.

I don't agree here. Mats are the basis of the economy. Supreme mats are very sought after, the usefulness is indirect, requiring a crafter, but that's imho a good thing. They can be traded, too.

I'm not against alternative rewards, just highlighting the cons of uber drops.

Well you could have it drop a nice weapon. You simply have it so that the Kitin are guarding a treasure and it doesn't "drop" from them. You make it so the sword can only be used by level 200+ characters.

The weapons already have requirements in this sense, so it does not solve anything. If the sword is better than any crafted weapon and easily affordable requiring less work than gathering the mats and can be camped, you'll have dozens of 1h sowrds around and crafters out of business. That's simple.