Relaunching an Old debate: economy

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iphdrunk
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Re: Relaunching an Old debate: economy

Post by iphdrunk »

andypur1 wrote:I also reckon that the NPCs should sell basic grind mats to a higher lvl, say to 150 or 200. I'm still at the stage where I would buy all the grind mats available without a huge markup, but at the moment, there is not the supply and my digging is going faster than my crafting as a consequence.

I regularly clear the shop of reasonably priced (<4k ish per mat, lvl 160+) mats on sale and it keeps my dapper supply in check :D
it used to be like this, it was argued that removing them would motivate trading, team work .. and economy :*) since otherwise crafters and diggers would be a solo skill (as if it wasn't already :) of course, for this to work the crafted item has to have leass value than the mats anyway. Another related effort is buying mats using honor points, but still unusable.
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grimjim
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Re: Relaunching an Old debate: economy

Post by grimjim »

arfindel wrote:In actual market I would disperse Dyron and Natae monopoly that's only due to the tp disposition. Zorai market is almost empty because there's no kara tp next to Min Cho and the kami one doesn't accept neutrals. Same to say about Avendale. Dispersing the population between capital cities and main commercial city evenly on each continent would improve lag problems and exploration desire in players as well.
Yes, this is a personal bugbear. Dyron is really the only 'convenient' city to go to in order to buy and sell at the higher level for neutrals. We really need our TP capacity to the cities restored.

It doesn't make sense for these cultures to shaft themselves by denying trade.

Avendale is the really annoying one, takes yonks to get there.
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andypur1
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Re: Relaunching an Old debate: economy

Post by andypur1 »

iphdrunk wrote:it used to be like this, it was argued that removing them would motivate trading, team work .. and economy :*) since otherwise crafters and diggers would be a solo skill (as if it wasn't already :) of course, for this to work the crafted item has to have leass value than the mats anyway. Another related effort is buying mats using honor points, but still unusable.
Ohhh, didn't know that. In that case, maybe a change to amounts of experience needed for crafting and harvesting is needed. I know that you need less experience for a lvl crafting, but this seems to forget that you really need to develop several branches at once (except for weapons). I'm digging in two separate race areas (Desert and Forest) to support my jewel crafting and the digging is still going faster than the crafting, even when using cats for the lowest jewel branches. The Master desert digging (216) will almost certainly beat the master jeweller (Pendants 205), unless I find about 1million mats just lieing around ;)
Zok
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blaah
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Re: Relaunching an Old debate: economy

Post by blaah »

andypur1 wrote:Ohhh, didn't know that. In that case, maybe a change to amounts of experience needed for crafting and harvesting is needed. I know that you need less experience for a lvl crafting, but this seems to forget that you really need to develop several branches at once (except for weapons).
no craft/forage xp change please. it's fine as it is already. check my sig to see xp values.

q250 npc mats would be good (if you have dappers why not use them), but then again, it would be same as creating npc who trades dappers for craft xp ;-)
grimjim wrote:Fix the shops so that decent things especially mats, can actually be bought there, rather than stored there, either with a max markup (500% maybe) or with that you have to buy out at the full price you put something on sale for.
i had a wicked idea a while back (that i also ticketed ingame), where retake price would depend on markup %. at 0% markup it would be 0.5% and at 9999% (current max) it would be close to 50% from merchants _final_ price.
only "bad guys" would be seriously affected ;-)
so, if it ever gets implemented (maybe 1% chance), you (store cheaters) know who to blame ;-)
greymar
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Re: Relaunching an Old debate: economy

Post by greymar »

grimjim wrote:Fix the shops so that decent things especially mats, can actually be bought there, rather than stored there, either with a max markup (500% maybe) or with that you have to buy out at the full price you put something on sale for.

Give us a load of frippery to buy or add expensive customisation to guildhalls, apartments, even special breeds of packer/mount that only LOOK a bit more snazzy.

Clothes, haircuts, DECENT consumables, fix the shops, apartments, guildhalls, mounts, packers, limited-time special items (like the candycanes and so on).

The game just needs an outflow to match the inflow some.

Great ideas, Jyudas. I'd be against anything like a reset that would undo the earning we've already done, but I'm all for putting in some "money sinks" to make it useful. Usually this is something a game company will actively do to keep an economy rolling, but it seems like economy has never even mattered for Ryzom. The rare mats for good weapons and armor are rare enough (for some of us) that the thought of making great quality weapons to put on the vendors is simply unthinkable. I especially like the suggestion of capping the markup rate on Vendors to keep them from being used as storage. It's impossible to scroll through what's actually for sale with all the stored junk in the way. In addition to Jyudas' suggestions:

Player or Guild run shops.

Ability to expand storage space for GH and Apartments (at a pricy sum).

Ability to have 1 apartment in every region (the ones beyond the first costing more)

Ability to 'dye' armor and weapons to change the colors.

Armor for mounts and packers.

Just a few thoughts off the top of my head. A lot of the new player-base is confused about why they can't get great quality weapons and armor on the merchants. I'm not saying we should be like everyone else... we shouldn't... but so many of us are spoiled with weapons, amps, and armor made from sup mats, that we can't imagine using anything less. Then we pass that along to the new players, and they feel the same way. Now and then I'll sell a weapon on the vendor (a degrade from sup mats), otherwise jewelry is about the only thing that I can sell, not that I need the money.

At this point, I think many of us no longer even consider the merchant when we need gear, because the simple expectation is that nothing on it will be worthwhile.
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grimjim
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Re: Relaunching an Old debate: economy

Post by grimjim »

blaah wrote:i had a wicked idea a while back (that i also ticketed ingame), where retake price would depend on markup %. at 0% markup it would be 0.5% and at 9999% (current max) it would be close to 50% from merchants _final_ price.
only "bad guys" would be seriously affected ;-)
so, if it ever gets implemented (maybe 1% chance), you (store cheaters) know who to blame ;-)
I like that.
I like that a lot.
I'm just sick of buying some equipment (or trying to) and then going to get mats. Thinking 'Woo! Tons of lining!' and then realising it's all at stupid markup > :(
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Jyudas
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iphdrunk
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Re: Relaunching an Old debate: economy

Post by iphdrunk »

grimjim wrote: I'm just sick of buying some equipment (or trying to) and then going to get mats. Thinking 'Woo! Tons of lining!' and then realising it's all at stupid markup > :(
Obvious answer, I know you know, but setting price filter to more than 10k avoids bigger frustrations :)
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grimjim
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Re: Relaunching an Old debate: economy

Post by grimjim »

How about upkeep on outposts, guildhalls and apartments?
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Jyudas
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andypur1
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Re: Relaunching an Old debate: economy

Post by andypur1 »

blaah wrote:no craft/forage xp change please. it's fine as it is already. check my sig to see xp values.

q250 npc mats would be good (if you have dappers why not use them), but then again, it would be same as creating npc who trades dappers for craft xp ;-)
Ahhh, well maybe the NPCs should sell mats upto the max level where you can gain experience (I seem to recall that it stops at 50 lvls below the skill being used), so make it q201 mats that the NPC sells, and a gain of about 20 exp per jewel using them at q249 :D
blaah wrote: i had a wicked idea a while back (that i also ticketed ingame), where retake price would depend on markup %. at 0% markup it would be 0.5% and at 9999% (current max) it would be close to 50% from merchants _final_ price.
only "bad guys" would be seriously affected ;-)
so, if it ever gets implemented (maybe 1% chance), you (store cheaters) know who to blame ;-)
Sounds like a good idea to me, but I reckon that there should be a 5% minimum, even at 0% markup and that the amount of the rebuy should go up with time, so say 5% for the first hour upto 100% after the 7 days. I've less problem with using the hawkers as mat teleporters when hunting than with using the shops as extra storage.

And the shop costs of course will be going towards wear and tear on the shop, keeping the shop-keeper supplied with beer, paying the kami/karavan for use of a portable teleportation device, etc... :D
Zok
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grimjim
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Re: Relaunching an Old debate: economy

Post by grimjim »

iphdrunk wrote:Obvious answer, I know you know, but setting price filter to more than 10k avoids bigger frustrations :)
That's why I specified the instance it happens :)

I set the price filter higher to buy equipment, then go to buy mats, and foom...

*shakes fist*
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Jyudas
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Currently pondering R2, please hold...
We're neutral, you're just too cheap to hire us.
Remember, other people exist than yourself.
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