Ryzom

thank you Sprite , never knew the list was public knowledge,hell didnt even knew it excisted

Is that list what was aggreed when the op was transfered to Eleytheria?

ps never even seen it infact prob not even signed up for the forums then lol

zippo124 wrote:This still needs to be discussed internally but I think it would make sense yes to keep a thread open with some sort accounting like Zysha suggested. For now we still need to figure out what the former leadership arrangements were

Supernovae.

Vx3 used to receive approximately 16 stacks of q200s per week (approximately one day's worth of OP production) when Zysha owned the OP. We received a few pieces of q200 maga creeper as well, but I don't think we got one every week. I don't know about the flowers at all. These are rough numbers, as I was not the guild leader of Vx3 at that time.

just to add, since the transfer i recieved nothing more from the OP, so can only assumed the list was abandoned.

wardone wrote: Zysha are you personnaly going to make the list of people receiving cats public? it should be you that does this i feel as its your pact.
So how about letting the homins know whats going on we are getting tired of being like mushrooms here

I was told when I handed on the op that the distribution program would continue and as it was from my point of view unreasonable to expect a large guild to take on the work of distribution for less than one day's output per week, ie do the work of distributing for fewer cats and mats than they had been receiving without the burden of distribution, that I both expected and wanted Eley to keep more than their previous share of one day a week's output for the guild. I didn't specify how much more, my assumption was that the list would be reviewed, discussions held within the guild of how much for them and how much for others, an apportionment determined, and the community's share allocated across and distributed to the recipients. This meant of course less for non Eley stakeholders in the op, but I felt it was a fair trade off - Eley got more for doing the work and the community continued to be benefitted as well.

I linked Avila up with others concerned about those who are excluded from op ownership and benefits and was told fairly early on that the list had been divided between them. Avila also informed me that she had added others to the Eley list and had assisted guilds not previously on the list both by trading up lower Q cats and donating to them. Two persons told me they had received donations and I presumed all was going well. I didn't regard it as my role to supervise Eley and I didn't inquire into the specifics of any of these arrangements and am a fellow mushroom vis a vis who got what.

I was informed a few days ago that two persons on the list had not received anything, and that one of the persons who reported having received a donation had received only the one donation and it amounted to less than half of what I had been giving the Solo Guild Crafters on a 5 way split of just one day a week's output. During the first four weeks I personally received a total of 3 x 250s and 6 x 200s, ie 1.5 stack of 200s and .75 of a 250 a week for 4 weeks, which I attributed to settling into the process and looking after the needs of others such as VVV who I had advised I regarded as in urgent need of assistance. This was redressed during the 2nd month by way of several large donations and an undertaking to give me 2 x 250s and 8 x 200s per week until this impinged on guild needs and my eventual share averaged to 5 stacks of 200s and 1.5 x 250s a week [and now Snake knows why I dig for him ]. My share was to be coming from the guild's share of the outpost rather than the communities share, and is therefore independent of the discussion at hand re: the community's stake in this op, but I wanted to make the facts known lest there be speculation that part of the agreement re: passing on the op to Eley entailed cats for Zysha. It didn't. My donations were received randomly as appears to have been the case for others as well until the week prior to the guild splitting when I requested a weekly amount be fixed as not knowing when or how many cats I would receive was making it hard to plan my game time - tho I do owe FINALLY getting a melee skill to 200 to weeks with no cats . So, I too am a mushroom and was even with respect to my personal donations until I pushed for clarity in the final week.

My perception based on what I have been told in the past few days in tells and here from VVV is that the distribution program was carried forward in a partial and ad hoc way. My speculation is that guild issues overtook Avila's time and good intentions. This is a game and there is only so much time and energy to deal with all that is at hand and I think it probable she thought she could resolve guild issues then turn her attentions to the distribution program in a more concerted manner. It is apparent, however, and regardless of to whom the op is entrusted, that for this to remain a community op the process of cat distribution needs to be public and accountable.

South Ends Dune Farm is a unique op. It once belonged to many of us and fulfilled in at least some small part a community need. It is by consent of the community that it obtained this status and that status is retainable only so long as the op continues to be a community asset. There would be few if any guilds who wouldn't love to own it themselves and it is by the consent of all of them that attempts to take it have not been made. My views are not THE views that determine the op's fate as appeared to be the perception of some of the parties to the Eley v Eley dispute. It's the community's views that matter as it is the community who has valued the op's role sufficiently to not seek to secure the op for just one group.

What I regard is needed at present, is for the current owners to make a concrete statement re: how many days output will be distributed and what the guildlines for distribution will be, an obvious one being Neva's question re: will status as kara or kami influence eligibility or share. Eley has stated it is making efforts to secure information regarding who was receiving - to shine a bit of light on all of we mushrooms themselves included. This will be difficult I suspect as Avila is taking time away from game to destress so the necessary information is unavailable to them at present, and it is in my view likely to be more productive and efficient to start afresh than to seek to reconstruct the past given the changing circumstances and fortunes of those on past lists even were that information accessible at present.

I think it a policital reality that there are many poised to pounce on Southend Dunes Farms, and myself among them, contingent upon what Eley chooses to offer to the community. I require, and I suspect the rest do also, to know what in Australia could be colorfully described as "dog's balls" terms, ie hang it all out there in the open folks, and in concrete terms, like 50 stacks of 200s and 5 of 250s will be given out each week according to x criteria, to determine if Eley's current policy is consistent with the op continuing to be regarded as a resource for the community. If it is not to fulfil this purpose then I will be racing to the declare sign in order to retain it as a community resource, while others who no longer see reason to refrain from attacking it will be dragging aggro on me to slow me down LOL - good thing I have those extra hps from melee leveling .

Welcome to op ownership Eley. This sounds like a threat - do what I want or I or others attack. And it is. What you value and want is subject to threat of being taken from you. This is the political reality of op ownership in this "game". Your course is yours to choose entirely, you can tell the lot of us to go jump it isn't a community op anymore and you are a keepin it. But should u choose to keep it as a community resource op all of us need the information described above that we can choose our courses with respect to Southend Dunes Farm.

Good luck with it whatever u choose

Zysha

PS to Anissa - I really do try to be succinct but I can't get it leveled up to even level 10 .

Extracting from thread "Invitations from Zysha":

1. Needed Storage and Friends

2. Guardians of Life

3. Solo guild crafters: Anissa, Petej, Braveganzar, Aajolea, Sinister

4. Out of Cavern

5. Eleytheria

6. Veni Vedi Vici

No offense but i don't like the idea of a kami guild sharing their goods with Karavan. Take a look at the OP list of who owns what, and you'll see Karavan have more then enough resources to share amongst themselves. Unless I'm mistaken and Eleythera is infact Nuetral? hmm :/

alhanna wrote:Vx3 used to receive approximately 16 stacks of q200s per week (approximately one day's worth of OP production) when Zysha owned the OP. We received a few pieces of q200 maga creeper as well, but I don't think we got one every week. I don't know about the flowers at all. These are rough numbers, as I was not the guild leader of Vx3 at that time.

It was: 1.35 x 250s, 16/17 and a bit 200s, 165-185 each of 150s and 100s, 25 wisdom flowers, and mat/s close to if not each time but not Q200 maga creeper each week. There were 5 crafters on crafter day who each received at least one Q200 maga creeper each too and the op didn't produce anything like 12 Q200s a week - it only made 3 in the final 2 weeks in fact at Q200 as the drill went on Q200 strike as I heard did some drills at other ops as well at that time, OotN op for one. VVV also received sizable donations of Q150 cats, strength flowers, and other mat/s as well when these were donated to our group. Taus wrote down what he was handing out in guild and can likely tell u precisely what was received, but was very very close to what I have described here.

Zysha

final60 wrote:No offense but i don't like the idea of a kami guild sharing their goods with Karavan.

There are many ways to view our community divisions, kami v kara being one of them, race as Matis, Fyros, Tryker, or Zorai, pvp v non pvp, rp or not and no doubt other divisions could be described as well - male v female, mage or melee etc. I am a psychologist in rl who has also worked as a social worker and my perceptions are influenced by this and following the outbreak as it were of ops, what was figural in my mind was the division between the haves and have nots.

Concern about this and the adverse affects it was having on individuals and the community at large, as well as concern regarding the values which underpin this type of culture such as conflict is preferable to cooperation and conciliation, the means to get one's own needs met is to take from others and so on, disturbed me as did friends quitting game over these issues, so I chose to take what action I could to redress some at least of what I regarded as social injustice in my virtual world, same as I do in my real one, it's who I am. I'm not an invented word/concept, ie a kami. I'm a person with beliefs and values who this type of thing pisses off and motivates into action. It was therefore that the sole criterion for being on my list was to be a have not as there are kara, kami, and neutrals of that class.

Some would choose to focus on other divisions, yourself the kami v kara one. This one mattered to me far more and so I chose this above all the others.

Zysha

I respect the fact that once you owned this OP, being nuetral and you saw fit to share with whom ever you saw fit. But the OP belongs to a Kami guild now, and every guild and every individual person bar one (as far as I can see) named on that list is Karavan.

I would put it to the current owners, that they are duty bound only to give away the op items with their own faction.

It seems that everyone is either Karavan or bloody Nuetral these days. Even most Kami are Nuetral it seems. Its annoying when a few Kami work so hard, and are constantly beat down by Karavan whos poopulation out numbers our own three to one. To see that a Kami guild is giving hand outs to Karavan Homins. Its insulting, to us and Ma Duk.

If Karavan guilds want hand outs, they should ask the karavan. Not expect Kami to hold up an agreement that a previous owner, not of their faction, once held.

Kami guilds need to help each other more. There are three guilds I can name as The riders, The soul and TS, as guilds I have alot of respect for. The Riders and The Soul cooperate with KoO , without question, we can always count on them to be by our sides for whatever reason. Team Spirit I have huge respect for the fact that they saw the need to turn Kami , they saw the predicament the rest of us are in.

If everyone else came to fight with the rest of us at OP battles, without question, or " I don't know I'm friends with this guy or that", or " I can't I'm digging", or " My guild isn't into OP battles". If there wasn't this degree of idleness, then the Karavan wouldn't be occupying our land. If you stopped thinking as individual guilds and thought of us all as Kami, together. If we worked together as a unit, we wouldn't have the problems we do. Every individual Kami will make a difference. Don't think otherwise "They don't need little old me for help", because we do.

You chose to become Kami, don't act Nuetral. Help the guilds of the same faction as you, when they need it.

Sorry if i'm sounding bossy. Just getting out some frustration. This isn't aimed at any individual.