Ryzom

dakhound wrote:rings all good and well for the rp orientated people I admit, I however dont want to create my own content, I just cant be bothered tbh. also ring scenaros will have pretty much no bearing on the "real" game.

as for the new tools, as far as I can tell ring wont be producing new eco systems/mobs/craft plans, so while we might get another alanti woods (or whatever the PvP place was called) and a few scripted events using these tools, anything dramatic (exciting) is still a country mile away

(newb island great idea, totally irrelevent to me)

you managed to totally miss my point ^^

i was saying that they created better tools for themselves and made part of it available as user-accessable to be able to market it and also to keep the player quiet while they are doing so.

as i already wrote, compare the reaction between these two statements:
"we won't be creating any new stuff nor do heavy development on existing stuff while we create new in-house tools."
"we won't be creating any new stuff nor do heavy development on existing stuff while we create an editor for you."

do you really think they would basically put EVERYTHING on hold only to create a user tool? also, think about how they managed to create the RoS so fast. it was a work of 3-4 months as far as i am aware.

i'm VERY sure that they will be using the ring in-house in order to create the following things:
- new lands
- rites
- events

xenofur wrote:do you really think they would basically put EVERYTHING on hold only to create a user tool? also, think about how they managed to create the RoS so fast. it was a work of 3-4 months as far as i am aware.

i'm VERY sure that they will be using the ring in-house in order to create the following things:
- new lands
- rites
- events

Just some info...

RoS, if it was only 3-4 months work would raise the question of what they did with the other 7-8 months?

This [...a revamped newbie isle...] was discussed at great length at the IRL in 2005.

http://www.ryzom.com/forum/showthread.p ... ght=island

Also discuss was at the IRL ...

Rites - We were tolded the existing code was [...for Rites...] so bad, that a contractor had been hired to replace the code that suports Rites with more generic code that would allow the 100's (1000's) of Rites, that have already be written, to be added in easily.

PvE - Things for people to do other that PvP would be coming and we should wait and see, they will be exciting.


If I had Spriteh's memory, I would be able to find and point out...

Annoucements:

GM's have been given tools to create events quickly and easily - this was about 18-20 months ago if I remember right.

Ryzom was not going to be totally PvP based - 2 weeks before the annoucement of spires.

I have also read that 'rewards' will come with R2, but for the scenario creaters.


Personal comment -

I really feel for people that are hanging their hopes on the Ring, I watched many of my in game friends do the same about Outposts. Ask yourself, where the 'outposts' we got, worth the wait and what you were expecting?


(All info in this post is factual to the best of my knowledge, please feel free to correct me if any of its content is in accurate)

myneun wrote:RoS, if it was only 3-4 months work would raise the question of what they did with the other 7-8 months?

outposts and ring development perhaps? Oo

btw, outposts got me what i personally wanted: real politics.

(All info in this post is factual to the best of my knowledge, please feel free to correct me if any of its content is in accurate)

oook, nothing better to do so why not not correcting tho, rather commenting

myneun wrote: http://www.ryzom.com/forum/showthread.php?t=15562&highlight=island

Oh nice thread on the bright side, it's good that they took into account so many suggestions!! ("default pack so the freedom of choice is still there but they are not penalised", "Universal help channel that should be selected by default", "A unified newbie island with four areas", "ask for advice and pointers from more experienced players" "1-year trial with access to starter islands only"), and implemented them in RoS ....just one year later

Maybe if we suggest now a taming skill it will be ready... in June 2007

Rites - We were tolded the existing code was [...for Rites...] so bad, that a contractor had been hired to replace the code that suports Rites with more generic code that would allow the 100's (1000's) of Rites,

True, plus the lost time in testing the rites in the ATS, the "rite queueing bugs" etc. anyway, to be honest I do think that the ring will be used to improve them. Some of you have misunderstood some of my previous posts. I am not saying otherwise, but I am asking for an update on the roadmap and and macroscopic long time view.... Is the Kitin study line still active?

PvE - Things for people to do other that PvP would be coming and we should wait and see, they will be exciting.

So much for the PvP strike team, and yes Mrs. mulligan replied with "some of you don't like the PvP part of it, period, end of story". Plus a statement regarding the in-depth study of the kitin *sigh*, added to the answer that the Karavan and Kami guides were to stay and that it would be possible to buy items from them using honor points to be obtained in the *incoming* new events. The wait and see has been quite common since release. The minor problem is that the wait part spawns 8 months and the "see" is underdelivering.

GM's have been given tools to create events quickly and easily - this was about 18-20 months ago if I remember right.

That was a good one, and I remember it pretty well. In fact, event GMs were supposed to go to Paris and learn new tools (so there *were* tools at that time) that were supposed to improve and streamline (were those tools what would become, 2 years later, the ryzom ring? I guess so) the events. There were confused players at Windermeer that asked why did not the event GM assist (Takashi at the time)... we got half answers later, explaining that it had been Themis choice not to assist.... just to learn a few weeks after that the shards were to be merged (why would you train GMs if you are laying them off?)

Personal comment - I really feel for people that are hanging their hopes on the Ring, I watched many of my in game friends do the same about Outposts. Ask yourself, where the 'outposts' we got, worth the wait and what you were expecting?

good point... myself, and no, I don't think the outposts in its current version justified the wait and the hype. I wanted to see the outposts and I was to be honest disappointed by the lack of depth, the dumbed down version and the fact that it is a glorified Gh enhancement plus a controlled guard spawn PvP area. but it is a nice addition overall... Now, I am believing on the ring, not only to provide players to create their own content but to see Nevrax use it to advance officially the saga. After that, Nevrax seems to run out of excuses (spring clean, new patch mechanisms, new project management, single-task focus, outposts with gods raining on them, ring delevopment, interface cleaning, bug fixing... ok, ok, ok.. and from now on? now the house is clean, the code is robust, the PvPers have pvps, the ring is ready -almost-) so wait and see.

Anissa says what I think better than me lol

/bow

The potentially good news with R2 is that the player-created content will most likely feed the per-se global content. You can see this kind of result in other games that gave content-creation tools to users, like UT2k4 or Neverwinter. Player makes cool thing (capes, new vehicle), devs take idea behind it and make new content designed outside of the restrictions of the player-end editor. Maybe with R2 we'll see players creating scenarios to pitch alternative ways to do raids/outposts/whatever, and devs taking the cream of the crop to use it for improvements/expansions.

Although I am kinda bugged out over what will happen after R2 gets released. Is there going to be new stuff (meshes, textures, resources) or a lot of new implementation of old stuff? There's nothing slated for the future on the roadmap other than spires and R2, so it might just be cleaning house for a while. I'm still wishing for dynamic kitin invasions though (wink wink).

In regards to the content of the original post... and in generally speaking...

It is true that we all are waiting with anticipation, and many of us get discouraged by the slow progress of the game mechanics and the lore, thus start to question ourselves...

"is it worth playing from what this game offers so far?"

and there are some that simply leave to find a better game. As per most of Nevraxs' awaited releases to date, Ryzom Ring too would not be as spectacular as some might hope. Several of us are waiting not for Ryzom Ring but rather to see how Nevrax takes their development once 'R2 and Spires' are out of their schedule.

Don't get me wrong I too am exited about Ryzom Ring and have several scenarios planned - in fact I was one of the first few members that quickly joined acridiel's http://www.ryzomringdrama.de to take part in discussions first hand.

What I think I am saying is, let's gave Nevrax a fighting chance, they are desperate to make this successful, they are struggling. Simply put they can not afford to let SoR drown - if it does, they will suffer an incredible financial loss. Do you believe they are slacking off on purpose? Just look! a small sized company is challenging the mmorpg market, its quite incredible that Nevrax held on tightly without giving up, and why were they able to? yes because of the support from their players. I understand that several players amongst us feel that...

"The company's problems are none of our concern, I do pay and I need all promised content."

this is partially true BUT put yourself in their place - what would you do? what can you do. Most everyone here would say that they would deliver what the players want - and that is exactly what Nevrax intends to do. Though I prefer not to say this - my cousin had once discussed with Milko Berset and well understood that they DO have plans to revamp the missions and rites. And those that talk about level caps, things will change as lore advances, as far I know time is not yet right for homins to grow stronger or better. Guys I know many of you are impatient but just give it time, just like you have been for all this time. As the saying goes "Rome was not built in a day". Just because we have modern technologies nowadays that doesn't change anything. There is no such thing as a perfect development team even amongst the large sized companies.

I personally am a talented and very qualified programmer, graphic artist, well focused in whatever I do. Right now I am earning a degree and quite effortlessly as both programming and design comes to me naturally. I stay up almost every night writing about thousands and thousands of lines of code for my clients - customers and friends. My dad had once agreed to help me organize a mid-sized software firm once I am out of college saying that I have the gift in this field. I know how much effort and strain this takes. Developing a MMORPG where several thousands of players can play together is not a walk in the park, especially with so much larger companies as competition.

However I do admit I am surprised at Nevrax as from the current progress I alone with two of my skillful friends can easily duplicate say the Burning Deserts with no towns, mobs, missions or details left out... in about a weeks time... Sure we may have to work 16/7 each day but if we are really IN IT it doesn't matter as long as we get the desired result. And I consider my skills only mid-class. I'm sure nevrax could do a little more.. there are 50+ Engineers after all. They just need the motivation.

Another truth at this is, the more funding nevrax has they can not only organize bigger teams to work on our needs - they will also be able to hire more and more qualified/skilled individuals. Its common fact that every person is different and some can actually be faster and more efficient.

Establishing a company with large number individuals does not necessarily mean that its become a powerful company. What really matters in such firms is the quality and efficiency.

Again it is my personal opinion for those that do nit look forward to R2 and Spires:

1) Put a smile on your faces
2) Have more faith in the poor devs - its not like they are lavishly being paid to do this.
3) See if they can deliver our needs after they get their hands free, like they claim.
4) save energy to raise your voice against nevrax after they fail to deliver the promises. ^_~*

Just kidding about the fourth one - lets just lighten up all.

- Sesune

/sign Sesune!!!

Great Post!
(Although I don´t have a clue about the programming part )

Acridiel

In the spirit of a healthy discussion...

sesune wrote:"is it worth playing from what this game offers so far?"

the short answer is: yes, specially if you are a newcomer, the game can provide lots of fun and a very positive game experience. For a more experienced player, your mileage may vary.

the long answer is: we would need to agree on what the game offers, match it with what the players expect, and finally realize that there is a difference between what the game offers and what we are told it offers and it will offer Soon(tm). It is here where the muddy waters are. One could reformulate the question to "is it worth keeping on playing based only on what the game offers so far?", and it is the question I personally ask myself. Given the lack of a transparent clear statement like "this is what the game will offer for the upcoming 8 months" and the presence of vague hints about elements favoring a "yes, it's worth keeping on given my expectations", we hold on..... without precluding the fact that we will keep rasing our concerns and yes, whether applicable, complaining.

Putting it in another way: What elements do we have to anwer with a "yes" this precise question to players that quit the game and that may wonder if it is worth coming back? honestly, other than "when the ryzom ring is released it will allow players and devs to do things and missions... yes, the ring and spires...details? nope eta? not even vague ones. Long term? they have plans...". It seems to me a hardly empty answer to convince a reluctant player.

Several of us are waiting not for Ryzom Ring but rather to see how Nevrax takes their development once 'R2 and Spires' are out of their schedule.

Myself included, and with waits comes impatience (without mentioning that it was originally planned for release for Q2 and we have no estimate other than when it's done, unless I am wrong). So basically it is already late. and further developments are "without neither a foreseeable nor reliable" ETA.

What I think I am saying is, let's gave Nevrax a fighting chance, they are desperate to make this successful, they are struggling. Simply put they can not afford to let SoR drown

We are. That does not mean that we cannot ask for continuous and regular updates on planned things.

Do you believe they are slacking off on purpose?

No, it's the lack of frank, direct communication what is debatable. It is not the same "we have not planned after and we have no idea what to do next once we finish this. We will see in due time, for the moment, forget everything we've told so far" rather than "our efforts are focused on this, but we have planned features and there are several projects in which work has begun which we will need to consider".

Just look! a small sized company is challenging the mmorpg market, its quite incredible that Nevrax

A bit nitpicking, Nevrax is a small sized company now, yes (although an initial budget of 16M &#8364 and you are missing a bit the point. Some of the concerns here are the lack of minor improvements, bug fixes, and specially differences between what it is said and what is done, as Morg's perfectly put it. We are not expecting a small sized company to implement a ryzom ring in 3 weeks, but "why do you announce titles change saying that it is a relatively easy task just to drop it later?" "why do you state that you will not stop Ryzom development if you are going to"? and so on.

and that is exactly what Nevrax intends to do.

You cannot blame players for being skeptical and reluctant given the past history of delays, underdelivery and broken promises, and sudden stop of communication.

once discussed with Milko Berset and well understood that they DO have plans to revamp the missions and rites.

They had also plans for cosmetical skills, players influencing the story, bodoc mounts, aging, children, underwater mobs, ranged balanced, angels, daemons, dark matis, and so on...

as far I know time is not yet right for homins to grow stronger or better.

This reminds me a past interview with DCC about this, on TV. He kept on insisting on the incoming flow of new features, but that for now, homins were focused on building their avatars.... I honestly know what's left to be built.

Guys I know many of you are impatient but just give it time

You cannot tell he have not being doing this...


I'm a bit sad. My recent posts seem to only bash the game, a game that is enjoyable and good, maybe I need to step back and rethink about this. But some of my concerns remain: we have no idea of a long term view, no idea of incoming features nor their dates, we seem to hold to past promises. And I like to raise my concerns, although we seem too vocal. Of course, there is also the possiblity of just beein a fanboy and saying "droooooolz" "hugggles" "bowz great poststszz" and so on.

Bit late I know, but still... (@ Xenofur & Neun)

When RoS was announced I asked in the feedback whether or not it had been made using "Ring-like" dev tools (or dev tools that were developed with/alongside/from the r2 stuff) and Marjo politely informed me that no, the R2 stuff was still not far enough along for them to use it inhouse on something like RoS.