Harvester Overhaul

[kisedd]

I agree, you shouldn't make anyone camp for mats.

From a desgin standpoint, there is a problem. People want the best items. In Ryzom thus far, it is choice. You can't sell a basic, or a fine item, period. Not good enough when there are choice mats available at a respectable rate. Choice mats are certainly more rare than either fine or basic, but once you know where they are, you can collect em.

So if excellent or supreme mats were easy to get, people would then demand those in their equipment. That would be where the bar is set. Even with a day night cycle, or whatever, to make mats a bit more rare, once you know how to get them, they are coming out into the game. People WILL camp. Even if camping isn't the intention, they will camp.

How do you make items rare, and yet still keep the game fun and not a camp fest? I know some mats are seasonal, this is a fair way to make things a bit rare. Seasons last long enough that you don't need to camp, but short enough that these mats aren't available at all times. However, people will sit the entire season and pull as many mats they can stockpile, so isn't a perfect solution. You could make excellent and above mats completely random, so that you have to prospect all over to find them. I know this problem faces other MMORPG's on the market that involve quality in their materials.

One other possible way is to change the way items are crafted. Eve Online has grades of materials (ore) the highest ores are in difficult places. Each item that is crafted needs vaious materials to create.

IN a game like Ryzom, the grade of the material would no longer change the stats of the item.

For instance. Lets say to make a basic pike you need basic mostly basic and maybe 1-2 fine materials and it would give a set group of stats. Modi pikes would need to be made with basic and fine materials, but also a few choice mats. The next plan migght include excellent and supreme mats. '

No matter what you do however, people will want the best stats they can get for damage, speed, protection etc. Just human nature.

[svayvti]

Actually me and a number of others can still get to the supreme mats.

But with degrade rates, etc it just isn't worth camping them all the time. Most of my supreme mat sites in the roots go untouched if they're not close enough to choice sites. It just isn't worth the effort every now and then.

The whole point of digging in the roots for me is that you don't have to worry about getting basic/fine mats to sell to the vendors. Because crafters really AREN'T generally aren't willing to beat vendor price for the q150+ basic/fine mats when they can grind away on q50 mats.

[jclifton]

The whole point of digging in the roots for me is that you don't have to worry about getting basic/fine mats to sell to the vendors. Because crafters really AREN'T generally aren't willing to beat vendor price for the q150+ basic/fine mats when they can grind away on q50 mats.

Hmm.. grind on q50 mats? I get about 7xp per q50 item I craft now.. after level 87 or so in craft it just isnt worth it for the LOW xp you get. People who are coming up on 50 crafting are still just dabbling, when you hit 90/100++ thats when the dedication has to start. The leveling gets really nasty there with the amount of mats you need to gain skill, and if they arent high quality like your skill you will need even more...

[svayvti]

Most Crafters are not that high level yet, most of those who are that I've seen are guild crafters. Guild crafters (in my guild and the others I've seen) have much less worries about finding or getting mats when they have a good guild to support them.

[korin77]

I dunno about that, most people that craft casually are hitting ql 80-90 already, those more dedicated casual crafters are hitting ql 100. Guild crafters are hitting ql 110-120 range already. I saw one unguilded jewelry crafter that was over ql 120 already and you know how much of a grind that is. Some of the suggestions in the posts are good. I like the xp for greater quantity idea, since now mat specialization is useless in getting higher level mats, the grind from ql 75 to 100 is brutal. Also I don't like the choice race specific mats either, but I guess all the trykers would collect their mats from fyros if they were removed.

[jesder]

I dunno about that, most people that craft casually are hitting ql 80-90 already, those more dedicated casual crafters are hitting ql 100. Guild crafters are hitting ql 110-120 range already.

I agree .. I recently started crafting .. getting to 50 is nothing if you have the Dap.. From what I have seen .. getting up to 80-90 shouldnt be that hard using just vendor mats .. after that .. you start grinding with harvested mats (key is not to use those q100 mats at all till you need them, unless you are crafting for another player).

[lyrah68]

I stuck around the newb island until 57 forager(no it wasn't all on mission nodes...I am not into powerleveling or I would be 150 now, I was trying to keep crafting and foraging on an even level, but it isn't really possible without HUGE areas of store bought grinding, which I HATE doing).

I was pretty well able to defend myself without going out and SEEKING mobs to build skills. I just defended myself with whatever weapon I had on hand (mostly daggers) and wearing the LIGHT armor I wore to forage.

But when I hit the mainland, I found several things...FEWER players willing to help point out node locations. NONE willing to help protect me while I foraged, and I SURELY wasn't able to do that up to my foraging skills. And a HUGE demand for my crafting, but equally HIGH demands on the materials put INTO the crafting.

I went around as much as I could, gathering about three or four deaths worth of death penalties. Mapped..in about five days less than HALF what I had mapped in newbieland.

I admit...I got frustrated and moved to an alt in a different newbie land. The mainland is NOT a ballanced progression. First of all, MUCH MUCH more is demanded of EACH class. Then the land is HUGE, three times as big from Fyros newb land to mainland, IF the mainland is THAT small. And then the materials nodes are spread and MUCH more random.

On Fyros newb land, I could run between TWO cities and make a full suit of Choice light armor, and between two others and make a NICE fast damaging Q20 choice only weapon. I dare say on the mainland...I can't get CLOSE to this. I haven't found enough materials of different kinds to make ANYTHING yet.

The frustration level is getting high on the mainland for me.

It isn't ALL about levels for me, I want to be able to do my job in the game. I want to be able to harvest what I need for crafting. I REFUSE to sell store bought crafted items, they are simply INFERIOR in everyway. I won't do it!

[overide1]

maybe its just me but it seems like the quality (basic,fine,choice,excellent, and supreme) should be more a matter of skill rather than spot. granted some of it should have to do with the spot. obviously the more traveled and harvested territory the less chance the mat source has to grow into an excellent quality.

every source should start at excellent and be damaged by lack of skill or overharvesting.

i seem to vaugely remember something like this in the first open beta but i could just be confused.

i have also found it very wierd that there are two types of quality on each material but it seems to be needed at this point.

unless they made the materials have no quality level (q50, q100, etc.) and made the outcome of the crafted items quality level based solely on the crafters experience.

i would think it would make things more streamlined and less confusing but i am no progammer.

[oddie]

So if excellent or supreme mats were easy to get, people would then demand those in their equipment. That would be where the bar is set. Even with a day night cycle, or whatever, to make mats a bit more rare, once you know how to get them, they are coming out into the game. People WILL camp. Even if camping isn't the intention, they will camp.

How do you make items rare, and yet still keep the game fun and not a camp fest? I know some mats are seasonal, this is a fair way to make things a bit rare. Seasons last long enough that you don't need to camp, but short enough that these mats aren't available at all times. However, people will sit the entire season and pull as many mats they can stockpile, so isn't a perfect solution. You could make excellent and above mats completely random, so that you have to prospect all over to find them. I know this problem faces other MMORPG's on the market that involve quality in their materials.

I like the idea of moving forage sites (making them seasonal or in some way adding a challenge of seek and find without the need to add another area to supplement the need for better mats) and I think this a good idea. But one thing is that I think there could be more sites, but I still have a long ways to go to catch up to many of you, so I speak from a low level of exploration at the moment.

But that being said, this seems to me to be a conudrum that I would hate to see this turn in an EQ nightmare. I don't like the fact that Sony has come out with so many expansion packs, leaving many areas of the game dead. What with Sony's philosophy of ever expanding expansion packs to entice players not only to areas of greater loot, but allowing them to reach into the pockets of players for more cash. That leaves me feeling like the donkey, I either get to chase the carrot or I get the stick.

Anyway, I digress, I know that we need the power players, they are like Lewis and Clarke, which is a good thing. I just hate to hear them complain that now they have made uber characters and there is nothing to do, no challenge here.

But please, no game is perfect, I am finding it not only not easy to forage (i did not choose to craft) but I also have not seen that many crafters sending tells that they would like to buy any mats, either in zora or matis lands.

I want this game to work out, I hope there are answers that can be found to keep players engaged and interested, but if you are a power player and there is nothing for you that is interesting in this game anymore, then maybe there are no answers for you. And if you are sticking around being bored and feeling unchallenged, then IMO there must not be other games that keep your interest either. So why do you stay?

[korin77]

Hey oddie, are you the same oddie from DW?(DreamWalkers Nation) ?