Ryzom

Well, again, yes, but...

* When we are hunting and I keep the best mats for me, it's not me, it's my character. If I don't share the loot, it's not me, it's my character, who was distracted and forgot about it.

* If I come to you and tell you that you are not welcome in Yrk, and that your stinky mug is worse than a bodoc, it's not me, it's my radical Matisian character, who is a truly Jinovitch follower.

* When I decide to keep OP crystals and mats for me, and I don't share with you, it's my character, and I am roleplaying a mean, selfish tresure keeper.

* When I ask a gazilion dappers for a heavy armor or sword, it's not me being greedy, it's my character, who is a merchant that considers her goods as luxury.

* If I gather a team and kill madakoo after you pulled it, it's not us, it's our character, who didn't want those precious eyes fall into enemy hands.

* If you exchange with me and I don't give your supreme zun back, it's not me, it's my character.

my point? it's hard to make the difference between player and character. I cannot be nice to the player behind while the character is doing all this to me, disguised in RP or not.


"it's not them being treated in this manner, it's their character, they are safe behind the computer", well, no. It's imho way more complex than that. Wealth, power, etc. those are character attributes, but they are not decoupled from the player.

I am aware that this thread was aimed at PvP, but I think the scope is wider, it concerns player and character behavior, role-playing (we can see the PvP as a quake mini-game, but it's completely out-of-role) and so on.

im very hung over but this thread has made me smile - last nights fight was v civil - but Jackoba if i ever see u in the roots ill.......lol

Well, I DID say it was hard to do; I think we agree on that point.

But, if people COULD remember that their characters are not their personhoods, things might be more friendly. Of course 'if' is about the biggest word in the English language, for only having two letters *hehehe*

I agree with anissa ...*thinks*...I know of one peep I don't really like much and thats because he randomly insults me when he is wrong...I wont give the name ... But Iv heard others say the same about him ...Now to me ... I don;t look at his rudness as a char action I see a player behind that who is imature and when he is wrong cant think of a better way to cope then to insult people ... I know everyone has there moments but most will admit they are wrong ...he does not... this is why he is the only person in this game I can honestly say I do not like ...

rundll32 wrote:- but Jackoba if i ever see u in the roots ill.......lol

feels honoured to be on a KoS list

I always really enjoy reading Jelathnia's posts

(And Anissa's come to think of it )

It looks to me like you're on a lol list, Jackoba, is that more of an honour ?

Player or character, we are known more widely by our words than our deeds. However, words are quickly said and can be as quickly forgotten, while the effect of what we do may be permanent. We could play a nasty character and say awful things, incite hatred, commit terrible atrocities, all without causing resentment if there is no permanent repercussion, no abuse of trust, no spoiling someone else's fun. Or we could play the sweetest, most helpful character and forget a debt or a promise and be resented for that.

Outpost battles for me tend to have no permanent effects but then I've never been in possession of one. That doesn't give me any personal perspective on the real value of an outpost to an owner, but it does seem to me that many people have given them tremendously inflated importance. On a roleplay note, I think that's all well and good - trying to keep Aeden outposts in Tryker possession, Witherings in Zoraï, etc. On the player level though, I think they may have been taken too seriously.

My point is that I think it's all about respect for other players. Taking what Red was saying about someone, for example - repeated verbal abuse shows no respect, if it's public then it can spoil the atmosphere for everyone. On the other hand, during the temple building wars we frequently saw a very healthy level of respect, with tense ceasefires and then sometimes warnings when they were about to be broken.

For me, it is almost impossible to separate my *self* (RL) from my character in-game. I'm being honest when I say this because so much of *me* is in my character. When I speak to other players (RP or not), I speak to them as if they were sitting in the same room with me....the same as if I were speaking to them in RL. When I do things (actions) in-game, I conduct myself as I would in RL.

In other words, I can *only* be *me*. I can't pretend to be some jerk that rips people...errr...players off. I can't pretend to be some power-hungry "gotta have it all" player that dances over the bodies of other characters and laughs at them for being "losers". Nor can I hide behind the mask of Jena (using my Karavan ties as an example here) to "spit" on Kamiists and treat them badly just because..."oh gosh, I'm just roleplaying".

But even though my character *is* "me", I still do not take things that happen in-game personally. I don't care if someone nukes me...I don't care if the same person kills me at every OP battle I go to (which are becoming fewer and fewer). I don't care if some other guild gets to the Sup Zun first - or nukes me if I try to get some. The *only* thing that I do care about is when other's try to suck me into their own little dramas. Save your drama for yo'mama, cuz I'm here to have FUN.

As I said in my post in the other thread (and which was repeated by the OP), I've seen (experienced myself) friendships being torn apart. I guess one could convincingly argue: If choosing a side (or choosing NO side) breaks a friendship, then it wasn't much of a friendship to begin with. In my particular case (no need for names), I chose to not participate in an OP battle where many of the people I had played with for months had to defend their own OP. But because I chose to stay out of it, I've been mostly shunned and bad-mouthed (only behind my back, of course) by a few that I used to spend all my days with. This kind of behavior goes well beyond "PvP" or "CvC". This is about the person behind the monitor that moves the mouse and types on the keyboard. Does this bother me? Not a bit, because I learned a lot about those few people that I never knew before. I always say, 'You learn a lot more about a person by how they handle conflict, than when everything is calm'.

Even those who STRICTLY RP are still being "themselves"....it is their thoughts, emotions, reactions, RL experiences, and online experiences that drive the character they play. Those that "play" a jerk online may be someone that only wishes they could be one in RL...but of course, losing dappers or getting DP isn't the same as losing your RL job or your spouse. But to PLAY a jerk in a game means they have to have the ability to THINK like one....and when you think like one for long enough, guess what happens?

For me, I'm pretty much done with all things "PvP" in this game. To be honest, I never liked PvP *until* I started playing Ryzom because in so many other games the maturity level of pvp'ers was so incredibly lacking. I thought Ryzom was different, and actually started getting into the PvP aspects....until about 2 months ago. It just isn't worth the drama for me. I'm so sick of the immature mentalities that think like: "ohhhhh, she's not coming to help us, she must be against us! She's a [guesswhat]"...or, "Ohhhh she's fighting on THAT side, she's public enemy #1 now!"...or even worse, "She believes the kamis should have ONE outpost...omg...she's not our friend anymore!"

So you can stamp any cute little accronym on it that you want, but it all boils down to one thing: If you do *anything* that directly affects another player, *someone* is gonna be pissed and trash ya. Why? Because players BECOME their characters; their characters BECOME the player.

Well we all have bad thoughts, haven't we?

Roleplaying against a well-made 'evil' character (D&D-style evilness) can be extremely fun, but few can play evil in a way that is amusing for all parts involved. It takes MORE empathy to play such a character. I know I couldn't handle it.

Do we have fun 'evil' characters in the game, apart from NPCs?

I have to agree with Sinera...anyone who knows me knows how I act ingame and out ...Yeah sometimes I get frustrated and say things I wouldnt normally but i'v never done so with out saying sorry afterwords...And this is how I am in RL if I make a mistake I stand up to it ... This goes into the game to...so my char is an "extension" of myself ... I concider the friends I have ingame freinds not little particles in a game ...If I wanted to play with just particles I wouldn't play online ...(yeah iv been thinking on this)

I RP some ...been working on RPing alittle more as the link in my sig (~Fighter Guardian~) shows ... But RP or not I can't change the bassis of myself ... My "Nicness" and "honor" can't be changed by RP means If I want to play an evil murderer ill play Fable or one of the ofline SW NOTOR games...

Anyway have fun guys I hope I wont think of anything else so I can avoid posting here again

P.S. all that I concider "Friends" in game I accept as friends in RL thats just the way I am...sorry o.o