Ryzom

Well, anyways, i do notice nothing elementary has changed in the time ive been away. So, i still have a good reason to advice new players not to go ranged, but instead, buy a decent 1h or 2h weapon to fight with.

That was also part of the discussion, me as an experienced player taking people away from buying a rifle and ammo, since they would end up broke. Lexxian disagreed me doing that.

blaah wrote:unortunately, all good points range has, is crushed when you run out of ammo.

Yes on the out-of-ammo part, the good points are crushed... But if the durability on my heavy armor wears out, it unequips and the good point of having a heavy armor is crushed too. The good points ranged has are balanced by the need to dig/craft ammo, to me the way ammo is implemented now needs little change. Actually, I think it is good like this.

other weak points...
even when you hit, you dont do damage and miss xp

Hmmmm, you are likely shooting a mob waaaay to high for your level.
You mean you were teaming with high people? Dress in lights, use your highest hitrate and hope a hit comes through.
You are tanking in heavy and using a gun while teamed, shooting very higher level mobs and you cant use the high hitrate cause you will be a healerdrain? Well, ehm, range just isnt meant to be used like that just like you cant really have a tanking healer that wears heavy armor.

range misses "increase damage" stanza

No it doesnt miss that, it isnt part of the type of fight. How do you picture doing more damage with a gun using an action? Quickly move it forward when you pull the trigger to give the bullet more speed or twist the gun to give the bullet that special curve?
With ranged, damage is done by the bullet and the speed of said bullet. You can influence these two by changing you craft recipe, using other materials for the bullet or a different type of explosives.
Still not happy with the damage when it is at 100/100 in the craft window? Use a better mix and get speed up, so you can use cheaper actions but still get the same hit per minute rate. Or get a better gun.

with high "hit rate" stanza", you gonna need personal healer to keep you up (so, you end up w/o "hit rate" or much lower one)

Not true, just dont wear heavy armor. Action penalty is killing!

you run out of ammo pretty quick if you try to keep your dps high (to be useful that is .

Eh? You mean you only take 300 rounds with you? Just bring enough ammo. That does indeed imply you cannot bring all your melee weapons,three amps, three sets of armor, a shield and two sets of jewels (in case team roles switch). But it helps to drop all but 1 of the tp tickets you can use in your apartment to get that extra bit of bulk...

good points...
you still keep 40m pull range even with heavy armor

1: Why are you using a gun in heavy armor?
2: Nice stats on that gun!

misses...
true "head shot"

Naaaah, too easy. And besides, then all phisical damage dealers would want something like that. Decapicitate, Brain Stab, Skull Crush...

fun does not neccessary mean useful... and range is fun (shooting part, not digging/crafting .

Yup, ranged is fun and useful too, if you have the mindset where you like digging/crafting and messing with recipes.

Basically it comes down to that: If you dont like digging/crafting, dont go ranged.

jlbloem wrote:Well, anyways, i do notice nothing elementary has changed in the time ive been away. So, i still have a good reason to advice new players not to go ranged, but instead, buy a decent 1h or 2h weapon to fight with.

I think you can explain the pro's and cons but what you do now is telling people what is most *efficient* to do. Why not tell people they should do whatever they consider most *fun* to do? If they want to have fun, please encourage that instead of telling them they are nerfing themselves. Being an experienced veteran doesnt mean you are right in telling people how to have fun.

Who needs bored people complaining there is no content after they leveled in the most efficient way to the top?

jlbloem wrote:Well, anyways, i do notice nothing elementary has changed in the time ive been away. So, i still have a good reason to advice new players not to go ranged, but instead, buy a decent 1h or 2h weapon to fight with.

wrong , range is the easyest than 2h melee (lets not even talk about 1h
_below lvl 100_ (or 80 if you want).
low hp on mobs (cloppers/goari) and their relatively slow speed makes it easy to "sniper" them out.
true, you need sponsor or dig/craft ammo yourself, but at low lvl xp required to ding is small, so it goes fast.

i was lvl 100 in ranged (rifle), before i got 1h (primary melee skill) to 100

@Frydeswinde: good points and all true but...
heavy armor: healer, nuker, tank (range user)
1 set of jewels that i wear (but they still use bulk in bag, go figure
light armor because i dont like to be naked when i need to heal/nuke
precrafted ammo
mats for ammo (worth for ~3k ammo)
ammo crafting tool
tickets around 50bulk worth (= 100 mats worth 1k rifle ammo)
(probably went over bag bulk limit with this list)

so, i have max 4k ammo solo. ~3 hours hunting time with 24 hpm gun (chain pull)
add hit rate (if it indeed doubles gun speed) and you get ~1.5hour hunt for your mats

"hit but no damage"...
3 ppl can hunt "low lvl" mobs and get 3k xp (base xp in every hunt
increase team size you need to hunt higher lvl mobs (or go to harder and slower ones - kinchers)
(i usually use no hit rate or hit rate 3, and i do get xp from every kill, just 90% of messages are "hit but no damage")

"benefits go poof when HA dies"...
you still can kill the mob with sword range cant beat mob to death with gun (or with ammo if gun dies


what bothers me the most, is that range user cant be primary damage dealer in group hunt.
in outpost defence, lvl 250 launcher skill with max speed/range gun would be useful i think .. around 24hour to clear gh and stack it with mats and ammo lol

@ Frydeswinde
you say ranged needs no change... how many people do you see using ranged?
thats enough said right there. if a skill tree isn't a viable and valuable contribution to a group then it probably needs help.
Though your opinion is helpful - such blatant trolling isnt welcome(i still think hes trolling)

addition: waltryck indeed knows what he is talking about it is simple enough to say that if there is a higher cost (continual ammo) there should be a greater reward (higher dps) than the competition(magic, melee)

if there was a restore ammo spell like restore sap(this is said to make a point, i dont want this either), then noone would complain

Okay. To clear up a few things. And I got a high lvl Range so I know what I am talking about.

First the Biggest problem whit range is that you don't have unlimited ammo. Go buy a sword and it works until it wears out. Buy a riffel and its junk until you put ammo in it.

That leads to the second thing. either you learn yourself to craft ammo or get others to do it for you. Now if you get others to do it for you. You might encounter the problem of: How to transfer ammo when you need it. Guildhall? only if you are a high officer so that mostly won't work.
Therefore most range fighters find it easier to lvl craft too. That way you have control over what ammo and when its ready.

Third is the mats needed to craft. Now getting those it is cheaper to do your own digging.

So either you get someone to supply your constant demand for ammo(don't think there are many who will do that) or do it yourself. And then you will need lvl's in dig and craft.

If you get others to supply ammo. Then forget about the heavy weapons like Auto launcher and Launcher. They demand to much bulk for you to carry enough for longer hunts.

and alittle about lvling. (these are estimates. Not sure if they still are accurate)
Riffle/pistol low mats demand per shoot. Average you need a 20shoot (4 mats =40 shoots) to kill something worth 3k.
Bow weapons(6mats = 20shoots). same damage but won't get as much ammo per craft. More mats so it will get you more xp in craft.
AutoLauncher. (12 mats = 6 shoots) Will need around 9-12 shoots to kill something 3k for sure.
Launcher (12 mats = 3 shoots) Will need 6-9 mats to kill one 3k for sure.

To sum everything up. Range works as it is. But where melee and magic only need to buy stuff once a week/month/year?. A range fight must resupply all the time to keep on fighting. So if he doesn't plan ahead. He will run out of ammo.

Watryk
soon to be Artilleryman

/Hijack

Ummm im 101 in both 1h n 2h Range , got those by kiting clopper in WoM (great fun ) only trouble is Clopper dont go any higher so whats the next mob for the solo Ranger (idealy it should be agro for high mat drops n exp bonus) Zerx maybe or do I have to go for Herbies n Primitives now ?

(Please dont say plants -that aint no fun )

Okay, Frydeswinde, yer right that i cannot tell people how to have fun ofc. Its just ment in a good way, if new players just gathered their first 10k of dappers, i really do advice them to get a nice sword and perhaps some armor. Im willing to explain the whole ranged crafting system, and anything thats comes with it, if they ask me for it, or really want to do ranged. Dont forget, i have been using ranged quiet alot myself with my old main.

The ranged playstyle has always attracted me, since its pretty unique, but there were too many disadvantages for me. So im not trying to tell people how to play, just trying to be of good help, and let them have a decent stay on Atys, by giving some advice and tips.

petej wrote:Ummm im 101 in both 1h n 2h Range , got those by kiting clopper in WoM (great fun ) only trouble is Clopper dont go any higher so whats the next mob for the solo Ranger (idealy it should be agro for high mat drops n exp bonus) Zerx maybe or do I have to go for Herbies n Primitives now ?

(Please dont say plants -that aint no fun )

edit: grr
try kipee, high hp tho
150ish horncher only in pr ?

... then it's plants

edit: lol, just tried took out zerx with rifle... use outpost buildings to lose it and it would be just fine

Ok alot of stuff has ben mentioned already and i dont want to write an essay alot of you know me and know i do not do alot else besides ranged, just few few suggestions that i think could improve ranged to make it more attractive and usable without wanting uberness.

a: 15% more damage

b: 10% less stam use

c: a Sniping brick for rifles (added range but no movement)

d: A slight change to Launcher ammo (30% reduction in bulk/weight, should give maybe 12 shots)