Ryzom

riveit wrote:I have yet to see a purely guild on guild battle. However, it was Kenshiro that brought the declaration to the these boards in the guild forum and quickly gathered allies so we must do our best to present our case and gather allies as well.

Riveit u turned rather aggressive and offensive. Plz stop it now. There is no need to make things worse. U already had many ill saying already which are not true. Plz stop it, its enough i think.

All Homins plz listen:
No matter what your choice was Kara or Kami, attack me all if u find me that i abused fair play or balance. Cause if I ever did so then i deserve to be punished. I tried to live all my life in Atys being fair and just to all even if that made me fight with my allies when needed or not. I tried to side with honesty and kindness so far. But i maybe wrong. Maybe i was in false track and my actions harmed u all. If thats the case then plz come and hunt me down cause i will probably deserve it.

I personally dont find yet though that me or any of the hawks acted this way and i cant find not even a single evidence of what Riveit trying to imply or criticize. I swear in my word. But of course i cant just start saying things that hawks did cause that would be against my principle, let the other see your actions. So all Homins see my actions and talk about them with me and if u find even the slightest unfairness to those then plz use your full force against me cause then i WONT DESERVE TO BE LEADER OF THE HAWKS.

I never remember calling for support or asking any help but i am impressed by how many homins came to our aid when they learnt about this attack. I never asked for anyone to help us cause i like my friends to choose on their own their actions and not me pressing them by asking them to help. Cause a true friend can be seen by those actions.
So i bow to all of u respectfully and your sayings wont be forgotten no matter how your gameplay choices will change. Friendship stays, choices wear out and fades or changes over time.

So all do what u think its best, i hold no grudges either way

riveit wrote: While there are few, if any, finer homins than Kenshiro, we feel that it is not in the best interests of Trykers, who are mainly Karavaneers, to have half of their finest resources held and hoarded by a guild of 6 Kamists. In addition, Kenshiro is actively joining Kamists in fighting at other outposts, including fighting for the outpost of the reportedly one-homin Kamist guild Eyeing Ewe Up - is their any greater example of how Kamists do NOT value fairness and justice for homins? Possibly, an example might be found in Infinity's two level 250 outposts? Next Kamists will be fighting to give outposts to the kitin!

I'm sorry Riveit, but if you are going to make a war declaration, please get your facts straight. You're using rhetorics to mix up Kenshiro and other Kamist guilds and make them sound made of the same and one matter (no offense to the other said guilds ). But if Kenshiro is actively joining Kamists in fighting, then surely you can find a good explanation as to why he fought to defend Infinity's assault on the MoV's outpost ? Dear me ... Kami vs. Kami... that's very messy of them, they prolly should have held a meeting before the outposts went live and dispatched outposts...

riveit wrote:The Band of the Hawks is not acting as neutrals in our view. We regret attacking the Hawks, but they only obtained this outpost because of the luck of camping in a favorable timezone, not as a birthright or any other deserved entitlement.

Yes, as many other guilds ... birthright ? In Aeden Aqueous !!! The only people I've ever seen interested about birthright were people who needed power and couldn't gain it the fair way... I suppose "winning the outpost because they were strong enough to defeat the Marauders" doesn't qualify as deserving enough, nor does the guild's 11 month existence or its being a Tryker guild...

riveit wrote:To be fair, we have offered the Band of the Hawks two conditions for peace. First, they can renounce Kamism and join the Church of Jena. Second, they can pledge to deliver 10k of crystals daily for distribution to the Trykers without outposts.

Fair ? Renouncing a religion is called fair ? Since when have Trykers put religion before all the other values ? (Oh dear I'm gonna do the unthinkable and actually quote Still Wyler from the Lore pages ... but haven't you ever heard of "we trykers live by the virtue of freedom, equality and sharing" ?)
I don't see you acknowledging any freedom or equality here, on the premises of religion... And if I'm not mistaken, have not the Hawks shared both time and "firepower" (not sure how to call it) to help other Tryker guilds secure their outposts in the Lakelands, regardless of their faith ? I thought that was what being a Tryker meant.


Although I can't deny you the wish to have an outpost, I can't seem to agree the means you are using to gain it.

To the Lagoons of Loria Tourism Agency
Dear Mr Riveit

Having read the Ryzom forums today, I am thoroughly depressed. I therefore wish to accept your offer of a free camping holiday, generously sponsored by The Band of Hawks, as part of your caravan convention at the Whirling Stronghold. I hope you will take the time to admire my (reluctantly purchased) Kami 400 - an old-fashioned model I know, but while lacking many modern contrivences, it does have a certain charm.

Anyway, after a pleasant days big game hunting (for which I believe the region is justly famous), I look forward to whiling away the night at the newly opened Crystals Eaterie, free from the lager-loutery that so besets the rest of Atys.

My only disappointment is that one of the apparent wonders of the world appears to no longer be accessible to tourists such as myself. Did Pero's statue turn out to have feet of clay?

Nail

My point on view on their demands

Riveit wrote:First, they can renounce Kamism and join the Church of Jena.

Sounds like fanatics. Bow you head or lose it.

Riveit wrote:Second, they can pledge to deliver 10k of crystals daily for distribution to the Trykers without outposts.

Interresting Idea. Hard to carry Out. But still interresting. But sharing freely and not at the end of a sword would be more the tryker way.

Riveit wrote:Veni Vidi Vici has joined Aedan Artisans in sponsoring this attack.

...Sounds like you planned this attack for some time. But couldn't really get around to give us time to consider your Requests(that turned into Demands when you attacked)

Riveit wrote:We hope to gift significant and continuing amounts of crystals to other Tryker and Karavaneer guilds and individuals without outposts. We are a small guild and will ensure that much of the crystals are spread outside of our guild to reward our allies and allow them to train more quickly

Don't sound like you consider Kami equally worthy of reciving these Cristalls.

Whatever the reason you think justify this war. Whatever noble intention you claim to have. Whatever your true desires may be. You Declared War. Not as a last resort when negotiations fail. But one grasped to enforce your will whitout consideration. To chose War so easily... I as a tryker will not Stand by and let them have their way so easily.

The Hawks Will not bow down to Threats.

Watryk
Proud member Band of the Hawks

This assault is not for the good of Homins or Jena.
We have some degree of harmony in the lakes, myself and Kenshiro have been on different sides of the battlefield many times and am sure will will be again, but the one thing him and his Hawks have always fought with is Honour.
The Hawks fought for many tryker guilds irrespective of faction all across the lakes to rest the Outposts from the Marauders including by my side for Evolution.
There will be no honour this day only sadness, although it pains me as it looks like I will be sharing my side of the field with many I regard as mortal enemies, and its is on your head Riveit that I must shed the blood of fellow Trykers and Karavan comrades in arms, i will stand by my freind and valiant Tryker Kenshiro.

(My view only, opinions and actions of other Evo's may vary)

Dear Riv, normally you make sence, now you don't... At all, go back and think it over.

riveit wrote: Aedan Artisans has declared war on the Whirling Stronghold outpost of the Band of the Hawks in Loria. We ask all homins to rally to our side and join in this attack. While there are few, if any, finer homins than Kenshiro, we feel that it is not in the best interests of Trykers, who are mainly Karavaneers, to have half of their finest resources held and hoarded by a guild of 6 Kamists.

We are Trykers.. and Kamists. In that order. While I don't know if you even have made a proposal for trading crystals and recourses, and I think you haven't.. Then I can only say, we collect them, we paid of them (darn expensive things, those outposts), we can trade them, make your proposal.

riveit wrote: The Band of the Hawks is not acting as neutrals in our view. We regret attacking the Hawks, but they only obtained this outpost because of the luck of camping in a favorable timezone, not as a birthright or any other deserved entitlement.

The Band of the Hawks, like you said yourself, isn't neutral, or have ever claimed to be neutral. From the beginning the guild has claimed Kamihood and has never told anything different. We don't mind Karavan guilds, or trading with Karavan guilds, or laughing, dancing and eating with Karavan guilds.. In commerce we are neutral, you're the costumer, we are the crafters.

We had when the Marauders owned the Outpost, just as much right to claim as any other guild. So we did. And we got it. Go us. You won't get it. It's ours.

riveit wrote: To be fair, we have offered the Band of the Hawks two conditions for peace. First, they can renounce Kamism and join the Church of Jena. Second, they can pledge to deliver 10k of crystals daily for distribution to the Trykers without outposts. If they do not agree with either, the attack will go forward.

These are neither fair or even thought over 'conditions'. First, renouncing Kami ways. Not going to happen. If you want to offer this as a condition you have to be able to do the same thing yourself if you would be in the same situation. And I doubt Aeden Artisans would switch religions for any reason, so don't demand other guild to do so.
Secondly, 10.000 crystals, I do hope you asked about how much these things make a day? I don't even know myself.. yet and we own the darn Outpost. So if you have put some thought into it, requested some information then go a condition.

riveit wrote: Veni Vidi Vici has joined Aedan Artisans in sponsoring this attack. We hope to gift significant and continuing amounts of crystals to other Tryker and Karavaneer guilds and individuals without outposts. We are a small guild and will ensure that much of the crystals are spread outside of our guild to reward our allies and allow them to train more quickly.

And basicly leaving the guilds that you want to claim to help: the small guilds that can't gain an outpost, and all of the Kamist guilds out. Claiming for all to us and then saying that it's only for you and whomever you consider your allies is kinda random.

riveit wrote: The attack is scheduled for Wednesday from 8:00-10:00 pm US EST. The defense level is only 8 now and will, I believe, drop to 7 by the attack. I call to all homins of good will, who believe in the fair use of the precious resources of Atys for the good of homins, to join Aedan Artisans in taking this outpost. Please all Karavaneers and Trykers help us gain Whirling Outpost for the good of homins and the glory of Jena.

Allow me to rewrite:
The attack is scheduled for Wednesday from 8:00-10:00 pm US EST. The defense level is only 8 now and will, I believe, drop to 7 by the attack. I call to all Karaveneer who happen to be our allies at this moment, who believe in the way we want to distribute whatever we get out of this for the good of Aedan Artisans and allies, to join Aedan Artisans in taking this outpost. Please all Karavaneers and Trykers except the kamists and other people we don't consider allies help us gain Whirling Outpost for the good of Aedan Artisans and allies and the glory of Jena.

Now if you even tried asking in any way, or even a trade agreement, or something? But nooooo, sword and magic! Death and glory! This is not even a good explination of this course of action, if it was a balloon it would be leak!

I think all the above have made clear what Hawks are and do.
Who we are and how we react.
Noone from Hawks got a msg from anyone from Artisans about asking to discuse about the sharing and all thngs like you say.
You said you tryed to reach Dalin and Kenshiro but i think you must tryed either not much (like you tryed one time) or the wrong time.
We are europeans Riveit and we not famed for been vampires and stay playing all night.
Neither in the morning (we have work to do also)
So as i said i think you didnt tryed to msg anyone.
You just pressed the button and then sent a msg for those you say.

We are Kami aligned from the beginning Hawks made.
And we showed it in the event i think(we had the kami icon above our heads).
In the other side you where keep trying to say you where neutral wiothout trying to understand that from the time you have an icon above your head you follow a faction....
Now that you do you put the faction in your reasoning for the attack you do.
6 kamist must not owned a Tryker outpost.
So you threaten us to change side just because you are Karavan.
Would you change a faction cause you where threaten?
Hawks never were cowards and never will!
Hawks will never bow their heads in threats like yours.

I havent seen any other from your guild to post or take a place(i think your Leader at least sould).

Your co-sponsoring VVV to be attacking by your side to widely Riveit but i still havent seen an Officer,High officer or Their leader to answer to your threats here and take a place.

Trykers are the only ones that voted for neutrality in lakelands and thats what we try to do.

retep004 wrote:Riveit u turned rather aggressive and offensive. Plz stop it now. There is no need to make things worse. U already had many ill saying already which are not true. Plz stop it, its enough i think.

[OOC: Kenshiro, if I was offensive or rude, I never intended to be. My version of RP tends to be a bit intense and I have gotten in trouble for that in the past. I don't think you or any Hawks did anything wrong and I meant what I said that you are the finest homins around. You got lucky with getting an outpost and actually I don't begrudge you the luck. ]

Now as to division of resources, you have stated that you think the guilds that got outposts are the owners and that ownership should not change. You even fought yesterday at Qai-Du Workshop to keep the ownership in the hands of a single-homin guild.* Please correct me if I'm misinformed. Also, with your control Whirling, the Kamists control over half of the best resources on Atys. I do wish to reclaim those resources for Karavaneers.

Aedan Artisans is proposing a broader division of outpost resources. My idea of a Lakelands Outpost Company idea was nixed as too time-consuming. I asked two other Tryker guilds to join together with us as co-owners, but I got trigger-happy while waiting for the third guild to reply. As I said, if you wish to negotiate an end to the attack, please contact me or Pero.


*Actually, it was just after you were killed me there that I decided it was time to declare war on your outpost. I had refrained previously because you are all such great homins.

Infinity attacked MoV as a test of the outposts. Unfortunately, our guild had few members who were able to participate in the ATS testing, so we had a 'fire drill' of sorts to check things out, as well as our own preparedness. We withdrew the attack after we learned what we needed to, and are now prepared to protect any Kami-aligned guild in the future. We do apologize for the lousy timing on the attack, (Christmas Eve ) however, we wanted to get the test outta the way as soon as possible.

As for the defense of the 'one person guild,' we don't care how many people own the outpost, and are fairly free as a faction with making sure that all have as much access to the resources as we can. We as Infinity don't care if there were 20 Kami homins or 1 owning, we just saw that it was under attack by Karavan scum, and jumped to the aid of a fellow follower of Ma-Duk.

Infinity will do so for any other Kami guild. So AA and VVV, be prepared to go back to Jena telling the tales of your heart-crushing defeat.

//OOC responds to yours Riv. As RP call out from someone claiming to be Ambassador it's a really poor thought out writing. Ambassadors stand for talking, negociating and trying to get things done without violence. So I think it's a very wrong call. //

You make it sound like you lost something. If all the respondses of the members of the Hawks weren't enough how deep this shocks us, then let me make it clear.
You're accusing us of keeping things to ourselves which is ours by right of building the Outpost. Next is you're accusing us of not wanting, no stronger, of us being absolutely unwilling to share, trade or exchange these same recourses with other guilds, more specificly the Karavaneer Tryker guilds and the Karavaneer guilds in general.
Without even asking us if we want to do sharing, trading or exchanging. You decided for us that we don't want to do that. You decided for us that we are not worthy of having this outpost. You decided for us that we aren't capable of doing everything we done in the past.
And now you propose to negotiate over exactly these things while threatening with an attack. If you call of your attack on Whirling Outpost then I might, and I say I here because I am not the leader or the rest of the Hawks, be able to forgive you. And you might be able to begin your negociations from the point where you should have started in the very first place, in peace.

After giving an apoligy ofcourse.