Ryzom

kaetemi wrote:Neutrals can already do all rites, be happy with that.

That' s not faction neutral, that' s nation neutral. And even then, who knows if those required fame values will stay the same under the new system.

Strike one!

kaetemi wrote: Imo, neutrals shouldn't be able to tp trough kami/karavan at all.

So that would mean all new players or players with a faction fame below 30 that can' t do the Cult membership initiation, can' t use Altars for travel, DP removal pacts and respawning? Hav you got any idea how hard it is to gain fame at those low levels? That would just restrict and scare away new players.

Strike two!

Bleh, I' ll give you the benefit of the doubt on the rest.

Noin wrote:For Jena's sake, the Kami could jsut kill ya or something for being Neutral

I seriously doubt that actually. As a matter of fact, with recent implementations you could more easily say the neutrals are the factions' best friends (save for homins of the same faction ofcourse). When new homins arrive to the new lands they will find themselves in an undetermined or neutral state, regardless of how they were nurtured and brought up. These homins don' t automatically gain Cult membership; they will have to prove their worth to the faction. Hence the factions use the neutrals as their recruitment-pool. And what better way to sway those homins that haven' t made up their mind than to give them a glimpse of what they have to offer? Hence they allow transportation to undetermined homins, within limits though; because a homin that has already sworn allegiance to your enemy is harder to persuade to join your cause than one that has not (yet).

On a quick sidenote: neutrals are not necessarily the same as unbelievers. The powers are making their presence felt all around us so you can' t ignore them. However, again with the implementation of cult membership it shows just that. Those who will apply for cult membership are only those who feel they have a calling to aid their chosen faction (best way I can think of to describe it is a bit like the European crusades where knights join their cause in return for various benefits and favours bestowed upon them by the church) while a neutral might just as well believe in Ma-Duk or Jena but doesn' t necessarily wants to prove his worth in battle (hence they won' t reap the great rewards the crusade will bring, but they will be able to benefit from the services the church offers back home).


Enough derailing.

kaetemi wrote:Neutrals can already do all rites, be happy with that.
Imo, neutrals shouldn't be able to tp trough kami/karavan at all.

No, no, no no no. No. Neutrals can't do all rites. It's been explicitly and implicitly stated that some rites will require a fame greater than 50 with a faction in order to take them. Neutrals can't get a fame greater than 50 with a faction ergo they cannot do all rites, which would make sense. They would be able to do only the low level ones for both factions.

Just face up to the fact that there isn't a single advantage to going neutral. I imagine that most of the people staying who wish to play neutral will just pick a faction and turn their pvp flag off, especially if they dig in pr. That way I can play pretty-much neutral and tp to any zone in the game, and have access to the higher lvl karavan rites. That, imo, is the easy way to have everything.

Oh, and Morgaine, saying that what neutrals have to look forward to is just the same as kamis not being able to use karavan tp's.. what you are saying is you'd be cool with it if the karavan held all of the tp's in pr and every single one in purple zones too, and the kami couldn't use them. I think we'd be seeing some different opinions if that were the case

Actually, that will be similar to the case that I am accepting. By being a kami, I gain access to certain TPs. However, Spires will prohibit me from using many of them since I can't TP into an area controlled by an opposing factions spire. As I doubt that Kami will be in control of GoC, and I have little interest in Loria, I am limiting myself to Zorai and Fyros. The Fyros TP maybe be of some use, but probably will continue digging in the Flaming Forest so I'll use the Oasis TP. As for Zorai, that may be the only one I use, but I'd be just as happy using the Haven of Purity tp and running the all of 100m to Void.

As for the PR, the Kara and Kami shouldn't reward those who are unwilling to commit themselves by giving acess to Supreme mats. Those mats should be reserved for the faithful of the causes of the kami and kara (hence they'd help their true followers, not those who refuse to follow them). Instead, the neutrals will have the inconvenience of walking from Nexus to Umbra or trekking to other PR areas. If you wish to stand neutral, so be it, but don't expect the kara or kami to then help you to get to materials that they want for their cause.

Neutrals, like us all... should get nothing they have not earned. Why I have been given access to Kami TP's and Fyros & Zorai rites this long is what should be the question. If you want something earn it...

The definition of neutral in itself means a different thing to most of you as seen in the polls. You serve nobody, nobody serves you...

vguerin wrote:Neutrals, like us all... should get nothing they have not earned. Why I have been given access to Kami TP's and Fyros & Zorai rites this long is what should be the question. If you want something earn it...

i, as a neutral, want access to PR tp's, i want access to q250 zone tp's.
i'm ready to earn the right to use those tp's but game mechanic (aka Nevrax) does not allow me to do so.

The definition of neutral in itself means a different thing to most of you as seen in the polls. You serve nobody, nobody serves you...

at least neutrals are not following puppet masters (aka Nevrax) blindly.

btw, where is content ONLY for neutrals. we have kami/kara tp's and _direct_ access to PR/q250* zones for kami/kara. spires for kami/kara.
neutrals get nothing but restrictions.

* i said _direct_ access, run for half an hour dodging aggro with possible dp is not direct access.

You pledge loyalty and dedication to their cause, you get rewards. the plegde will be formal with consequences. So i really have no problem with the new fames because i am able to accept consequences in return for reward. to choose a neutral position serves only yourself from the conseqences, but you truly think there would be reward too?

Atys is a place of 2 cult superpowers and 4 nations. it is only they who can give rewards to not be a part of them is to not get rewards. There is really not much room for the diverse aspects of neutrality to be all happy (pacifists, mercenaries, new players, uncommited to name some types), I don't see neutrals as a faction due to their lack of inherant unity or vision (other than not wishing restrictions). Neither do Nevrax imho. The options left available to neutrals is satisfactory to lvl 150ish and increasing worse beyond that point. this makes sense as the nations and cults wish the stronger unaligned to join them. But not by gifts but by the benefits of those already within a cult/nation.

Atys changing espeicially in dynamic ways like with this fame is a good thing, it forces players to make meaningful decisions, to change their old routines, and adapt to new challenges.

personally, my opinion is the no tp's for neutrals is just another load of BS, nice that mostly people who have an interest of keeping PR their own have posted agreement to this

but ignoreing lore and looking at gameplay its sheer BS and nevrax has done a good job of making it impossible for me,my guild and a few other guilds to play in a style that we're used to

ryzom was attractive to me originally thanks to the very open world and unrestricted skills/classes/areas, now 1 by 1 they take away our choices and that has left me with no motivation to play this game anymore

tylarth wrote:... There is really not much room for the diverse aspects of neutrality to be all happy (pacifists, mercenaries, new players (?!), uncommited to name some types) ...

No room for new players? How is the game supposed to live then?

manya wrote:No room for new players? How is the game supposed to live then?

New players have money to buy tps? Since when?

It would seem that opinion on the acceptability of all this stuff depends on where you are sitting. The overwhelming initial outlook seems to be "if it advances my personal position, it's a good thing". The success of the game, especially the english server, depends upon keeping as many player as possible and attracting new ones. Losing a siginificant portion of the people because they are being locked out of much of the game does not bode well for the overall success and continued viability of the game / server. Imitating other succcessful and well established games doesn't seem to be a good strategy either as peeps get pulled away for something new and different rather than more of what they are already playing.

In New York we have Yankee fans who hate the Mets (baseball), we have Giants fans who hate the Jets (football)....in UK there are soccer fans who hate the major rivals of their teams. But a substantial number of people like the "game of" baseball / football / soccer and can enjoy the game simply for the athleticism, artistry and simple beauty of the game. The diehard Yankee fan can't understand how a fan can root for the Yankees one day and root for the Mets the next. Both teams have no problem taking your money when ya show up at the ticket gates.

I really don't see anything being offered here for neutrals. So much so that I wonder if the intent isn't to get them out of the game.

-Neutals can't fight until they are at a severe disadvantage, having taken one or more hits before they can respond.
-Neutrals are economically disadvantaged with a maximum fame of 50. Don't even try to respond with the 100-50-25-25 argument. A trip to a vendor is obvious enough point that everyone just dumps on the closest vendor and then retrieves to sell to the race with which they have the highest fame.
-Neutrals have no access to PR . Crafting progress is gonna take quite a hit when you have to port out and walk in everytime your bag is full.
-Neutrals have no acesss to 92 new craft patterns.

If neutral is being provided as a choice, it should be a real choice.....it must be viable. For those whose position all is as it should be I have to ask if you would accept the following:

Assuming you are Kara:

-You can not attack a kami player unless they hit you first.
-No tp's at all in the two kami leaning lands.
-No tp's in PR
-You get 50% value on all dug mats and crafts made from them.
-Only Kami's get new craft patterns.

Obviously....visa versa

Again, I understand why a RP'ing fundamentalist faction worshiper would have such an outlook but as we are being given a choice of what religion to choose, freedom of religion by definition must include freedom from religion.

We already see peeps trying to figure out how to get around the new "rules" ....choosing a faction and turning PvP switch off was mentioned. I also wonder how many peeps will quit guilds, join a faction guild to get the new patterns, stock up on PR mats or whatever and then rejoin their old guild....stock up on crafts....become a citizen, sell all their stuff and go back to neutrality.....will a person be able to sequentially become citizens of all 4 lands and get access to all the rites ?

The major advantage to this game as I saw it was flexibility....there were no wrong choices to make as making a choice did not hinder you from future choices. There's nothing wrong with making different choices available, but
making that choice should not be a disadvantage. Gor example, making Fyros flaming axes only craftable by Fyrosians does not hamper a choice as long as an equivalent weapon is made available to other peeps.

Could we not have hope of getting access to the rest of the game as a neutral player after accomplishing certain tasks....such as by reaching fame of 50 in all lands could we not have access to a 3rd faction or obtain the "wisdom the ancients" ? All 4 races united in the kitin wars...the spirits of these ancient warriors could, for those who choose NOT to participate in a religion, provide the neutral players with access to this portion of the game....

The ancients could prpovide them with plans for trading outposts (near PR portals) to defend against kitin raids and serve as a bastion of religious tolerance. Altars could be built to the ancients where "the chosen" could have weapons enchanted or crafting skills learned. New tp portals could be provided...In essence, a true choice would be available to all the players in Atys.