"Ganker"

[swe999]

Yeah... spiff... as much as I complain about you I think you shoudl be wiping out the opposition in the old lands.

However we all know that if we dont all dig we will never get these temples built because the lands disappear after a week every time. Think of that. They disappear, and you have no other chance to get those mats.

[roninpvp]

Not at all the same as camping a low level hunting area and killing every noob who walks out, ressing them, killing them, ressing them, killing them, looting them, laughing at them, then hacking up their body and spreading the body parts all over. THAT is ganking. Get a clue.

Thats Griefing

Griefer - another player who attempt's to ruin the enjoyment of other player's through harassment purposefully.

Ganking is by definition what Nevrax wants people doing in EP2

[quasar11]

Sorry Spiff but your fighting a lost cause here. Killing defenseless diggers is ganking. Getting maximum "honor" for doing so is sick. Justifying it by saying you're doing it for you God, demeans your God. You don't want to be accused of Ganking, then don't. You see a digger you challenge them "stop digging or die". That's the truly honorable way to fight.

[sasaj]

Whole PvP/FvF in E2 is boring. I have no problems with some PvP areas if thaere is some purpose. Can't see it here. You get into FvF area. You can die harvesting or fight. If you fight you go from kara to kami gate and die there (or the other way around). If you are lucky, player killed you, so no DP from kincher pulling player (no names but we know him). Repeat it. After 2 evenings there (3h total time) i left E2. I'm not going to even see that new lake FvF area. Honor points for killing harvesters. Many ppl just left it.

Main reason for best movie/screenshot contest (NVidia 6800, i guess left from previous contest) is to get ppl back there. No thank you. I may make movie of myself harvesting in GoC and send it. That will be my movie from E2.

[boinged]

TBH I agree with Spiff, in his roleplay he's doing what is required by the gods and if I played a fanatical type I would too although would find it very unsettling to follow this through. This isn't just using an RP excuse in his case, I was there for the OmegaV guild statement months ago in Matis and they remain true to character.

However, the gods aren't always that honest with us - the mats aren't limited, all the temples can be built, we can use diplomacy, we can do non-aggressive pvp i.e. out-dig each other. If both sides have a peace agreement and one guild breaks it then expect to be disliked as you're undoing the hard work of the diplomats. There aren't many mechanisms for dealing with religious zealots that threaten your own temple productivity.

IMHO it is ganking in that the harvesters can't fight back easily but also it isn't at the same time as the harvesters (and the crafters don't forget them in the PVP zones around temples ) are a (non-aggressive) weapon of the enemy. Well done to Nevrax for creating this complex moral situation

I understand this and you understand it Spiff but all of the harvesters that have been driven out of the event never got it. As Nevrax have realised in the latest letter from Jessica, the RP/IC part of the event really clashes with our OOC playstyle.

Maybe people should call you a "murderer", "butcherer" or something equally bad instead. If your side loses then Yrkanis should banish your guild or something (and if they win then it will be swept under the carpet ). There could be war-crimes trials although you're likely to find me being prosecuted There will be ramifications (which you're well aware of).

[roninpvp]

Getting maximum "honor" for doing so is sick.

Your outrage should be directed at the company for making this the future of the game. I dont condone Spiff's actions but you really cant blame him when he's just doing what Nevrax wants in EP2. Your right its sick you get maximum "honor" for ganking. Its sick that they allow agro training. Its pretty sick how poorly they've implemented pvp. I recommend submitting a ticket telling them how sick it is.

[riveit]

Justifying it by saying you're doing it for you God, demeans your God.

To be fair, Xelir, Spiff didn't create this rationale. The Karavan and Kami envoys have endorsed this view in the following thread:

http://www.ryzom.com/forum/showthread.php?t=19559

Why do we need to fight the other faction, why can't we just work side-by-side?

Jena and Ma-Duk fight against one another, your goal is not only to build temples but to build more than the Kami or Karavan

[mtsmith]

I honestly appreciate the feedback on this, both for and against.

Off topic, Xelir, it's awesome to see you posting and I truly hope to see you in game.

[sydius21]

People have a right to complain when someone kills them, just as I have a right to complain when a clopper spawns next to me and eats me while I was trying to type something.

I see nothing wrong with people who "gank" other people, and I see nothing wrong with people who complain about those people. Truthfully, I am in favor of the ability and mechanisms to use unfair tactics, and that includes killing someone while they are AFK, killing someone while they are harvesting, and killing someone just because they look weak. I see no reason why you should not complain if that happens to you, but I would not want it removed from the game anymore than I would want the clopper removed from the game (at least by any mechanism other than killing it).

I would take a 10 million dappers if the developers decided to offer them to me. I would take the chance to be invulnerable to disgruntled digital serial killers if I was offered. To be honest, though, I would hate to be offered either.

Just my opinion, that's all.

[sidusar]

Well, from an IC perspective, you are doing exactly as the Kami or the Karavan ordered you to do. In their eyes is it is even honorable, and apparently in the eyes of the homin governments it is at least acceptable. But individual homins can still consider it as morally wrong to attack and kill unarmed homins, no matter for what cause, and they have a right to condemn you for it.

From an OOC perspective, you are definitely ganking though. (My definition of ganking would be: Killing someone who has very little chance to escape or fight back.) It's true that from an IC perspective you are required to do things that would be considered ganking OOC, but that doesn't mean it's suddenly not ganking anymore. It's true that attacking enemies while they're unprepared or destroying their supply lines are also good tactics, but that doesn't mean it's not ganking either. Some players gank others just to ruin their fun (in which case it's also griefing) and some do it because they are supposed to by the way the game works (including you), but by the definition as I understand it, the later are still ganking.

Whether or not ganking is acceptable in this later case is a matter we're not going to be able to agree on. I can't even agree on it with myself really. I see the point that anyone supplying the enemy is a fair target, but also the point that attacking an unarmed person is just wrong. Honestly I'm very glad I'm not playing a fanatic, I wouldn't be able to stay in character without feeling bad about it OOC.

IC people have a right to condemn you for killing defenseless targets, but I do agree that OOC other players can't really blame you for staying true to your character. It's Nevrax decision to reward our characters for ganking.

Anyways, a few gameplay mechanics that in my opinion greatly add to the feeling of being 'ganked':
Firstly, the dots not turning red until they're already within shooting range and then it's too late. I'd personally rather there were no dots at all instead of this system, at least that would allow me to hide a bit.
Secondly, the lag in the use of invulnerability and magic protection aura. If I press invul at the moment "Spiff invokes an offensive spell on you", the power will activate but the spell will hit (and likely kill) me despite the invulnerability, and yet the invulnerability will still be used up. Identical for magic protection aura. Same system makes it impossible to run out of range of the elementalists.
Thirdly, in forage gear an enchantment will kill me instantly before I even notice I'm being attacked. Such an instant kill should in my opinion not even be possible, but if it is, it should at least be far more costly than a few hundred dappers.

I think if just those things are changed, it'll already go a long way towards not making foragers so ridiculously easy to kill while they're defenseless anymore, and the foragers won't feel as frustrated at already being dead before they were able to respond.