Ryzom

Be careful how you insult "unthinking loyalists". Atys is not currently place of liberal freedoms and idealistic visions. There is simply not the stability. It is a harsh unforgiving world, where if not for the powers of the Karavan (and Kami) we would not have any of the freedom of movement and trade we currently use. To make a world of your vision then seek to remove the hinderances, the Kami and the Kitin. If you believe me unthinking to conclude this, then i invite you to discuss the matter further. But to casually tar the fundamental beliefs of your people and your ancestors is a great injustice born of a blinkered vision.

You mean like they shouldn't insult Hominists by calling them cowards, traitors, free-loaders and tree-huggers?

I do not want to insult unthinking loyalists, I want to get them to think about the reasons for their loyalty.

Loyalty should not be commanded or demanded; that degrades not only both parties involved. It also degrades the value of loyalty itself to some trade good. Loyalty should be given freely to empower both giver and receiver.

...where if not for the powers of the Karavan (and Kami) we would not have any of the freedom of movement and trade we currently use...

Only if you use teleporters. You can get around Atys without. 'Just' takes a bit longer and best done in a trek of many Traders. As for merchants, I fail to see the connection between e.g. my Fairhaven tool merchant and Kami or Karawan.

[ooc]
As for liberalism, there are vast differences in definition between European liberalism and American liberalism. I prefer the European one (from Wikipedia):
Liberalism is an ideology, or current of political thought, which defines itself as striving to maximize individual liberty through a democratic system of rights under law. In this system, the form of society is determined by the outcome of open competitive process, generally including economic competition, free exchange of ideas, and political expression within a defined framework. Liberalism rejects many foundational assumptions which dominated most earlier theories of government, such as hereditary status and established religion.

The fundamental principles of liberalism include these. That governments should rule with the consent of the governed; that individuals have a right to life, liberty and property; and that all citizens have equal rights under the law.

The Ryzom trade system e.g. is exceedingly liberal, as it is free for everyone to put their goods on any market at any price they desire.

But this thread is NOT a political discussion. If you want that PM me.
[/ooc]

Honoured Thosam, guildbrother,

Nobody has forced homins into loyalty. Lady Lakera, King Yrkanis and your Governor Wyler humbly asked our guildleaders for it. The reasons were good, protect goddess Jena from Ma-Duk's legions.

Standing by her side is standing beside creation itself. I doubt the majority of the gathered guilds will agree to be tools in war for material wealth and use Jena as an excuse to attack followers of different beliefs.

Lady Sxarlet, our leader, made that clear in her speech and I witnessed many favoured her wise, and very Trykerish, words.

Ulani Viccio

The Karavan called and those who are curious or inclined to follow their path showed up. After a speech from their representative. Which didn't bring much new to light. Except the hint that Ma-duk was shaping things in a way he wanted them to be and Jena didn't. Thereafter the representative of the rulers stated they were supportive of the karavan. Word was then given to the Guilds to state their position.

The general agreement are that we will follow to a point.

Whetever that point will be the gates into PR or out of PR. Is neither told nor given reason to consider for now. Bloodthirsty are we not. So if the karavan want us to bring war into kami land they will have to come whit a lot more than this. But what role Hominkind will have to play is for now still unknown. For that reason I will wait and see if things soon are going to be clearer

Watryk
Illuminati

Lady Ulani, Mistress of Matis Lore for Guild Evolution,

I do not take umbrage in people declaring loyalty to King Yrkanis or to the Karawan. If that is their choice, then as free homins that is their right to do so.

I take offense in those denying me my rights because I choose differently than them.

thosholm wrote:Interesting haircut too.

But fashion aside.

The meeting showed that there was a wide span amongst the guilds in their relation to the Karawan, from the unthinking loyalists to the critical hominists. There were several guilds I didn't hear from, like Red Ribbon Army, Atys Ghosts or Ballistic Mystics.

The individual statements too spanned the spectrum.

I'll be at the Kami Meeting tonight too, just to hear what goes on.

As far as getting a spot to speak, no, the RRA were unsuccessful there. However, I think I called out just about every 'unthinking loyalist' I could, in one form or another. I think I can speak for the RRA when I say that we reside in the corner of hominkind, while of course, always keeping our pouches full of dapper

Honestly choosing the lawful karavan over the chaotic Kami degrade oneself to meaningless repetition. Circular arguments have no value, and such is life.

thosholm wrote: .... There were several guilds I didn't hear from, like Red Ribbon Army, Atys Ghosts or Ballistic Mystics.
....

The decision to speak or to simply listen was mine. I looked into the faces of those who attended and decided that those who were in attendance had already made up their minds. My voice alone wouldn't sway them to join me in my desires. I decided that I would not speak in contempt of our faith or our leaders. I did not want to spark any grievence against us for merely speaking of my desire for peace and cooperation. BM doesn't have a political agenda. We are open to all and share openly. We hope war can be avoided. The blood of homins isn't needed to be mixed with the soil of Atys for it to be fertile. Strife and destruction is not needed for our peoples to prosper. Our faith shouldn't set us above another.

We have much to be thankful for, to the Karavan and the Kami. Our peoples were almost lost to history when the Dragon was awaken and his minions, the kitins, ravaged across the land. Yes, they came to our aid and protected us. They drove the kitins back into the depths of Atys. The graves of our heros have long turned to dust. They are now remembered only in our lore and the bedtime stories we tell the young. The Karavan and the Kami have granted us a reprieve from death. But now they are telling us our tributes, song and prayers are not enough. We have forgotten the fear of death. We have forgotten a lot of things.

I am a child of the wind. The wind will decide my path. I am a child of Atys. Atys will provide for me. I am a child of HOPE. HOPE will protect me.

-Rakujitsu, leader of Ballistic Mystix, member of HOPE.

Well said Rakujitsu there has been to much blood spilled on Atys by war and this is why i join H.O.P.E. Windra mage of the Winds, Sage, and keeper of the Lost Tale is at you side and so is Wanderlust.I bow to you.