Ryzom

@nijht: bingo! currently melees AND mages are burning themselves out on hp credits, added to whatever the mob does. after the balancing there won't be a need for burning out, as "the sap will flow" and the mobs will have less potential of inflicting damage if you're properly protected(hvy armor, shield).

@philu: i'm a melee and a healer, so i'm not just rooting for the mages to be nerfed. in fact, i'm calling for a nerf of myself also, i don't care squat about dying, after all i was the one taking these pics while being unaware of the dp being switched off. if it happens we sit together, talk about what went wrong and correct it.
besides, these changes will be on the ats for us to test, so nothing is final yet.

Gosh, we don't want Homins running the risk of dying while hunting now do we!

Next they will remove all the aggo from the harvesting areas - oh wait a min they have done that already.

And allow us to run away from mobs - oh wait a sec thats been do too.

Then they could reduce the aggro in all the hunting area and buch the ones that are left so that they can be pull off one by one for faster level - eek thats been done as well.

hummmm - how easy do you want this game to be?

I think maybe the idea of reducing the heal is to encourge the need for more than one healer for a team of 9 and possible add a bit of spice back in to hunting. I the only flaw in the idea that I see is that your luck to find one healer about, let alone more than one.

If healing had been changed at the same time they reduced the mob damage to the levels proposed now, this debate wouldn't be happening ..... but as ever once people get used to something, change will be met with the 'OMG they nerfed my toy!'.

If you think being able to heal 3k+ hps at less the level 150 is not overpowered, I would be interested in knowing what mobs you are fighting.

In hunting, risk = fun and challenge = achievement, at the moment there is little to no risk hunting, unless you are very careless or fight mobs much greater than the team level.

I aswered Yes, but....

PvE fighters needs some serius defence buffs on armours. Healers are current tanks, if fighters gonna do it, then they have to have possibilities do so.

borg9 wrote:In hunting, risk = fun and challenge = achievement, at the moment there is little to no risk hunting, unless you are very careless or fight mobs much greater than the team level.

There is fine line when someting is fun and when it's not. Usually fun is about living the edge, but also survey from it. If risk is coming too high, it's not fun anymore.

borg9 wrote:I think maybe the idea of reducing the heal is to encourge the need for more than one healer for a team of 9 and possible add a bit of spice back in to hunting. I the only flaw in the idea that I see is that your luck to find one healer about, let alone more than one.

This is a very good point, there is already a serious lack of healers in game. Obviously making them less powerful and virtually disallowing players to team up with healers lower than their level isn't going to help with the situation. What's ironic is that it is usually the melee who's looking for healers, so who knows, maybe when the 250 melee players who PvP are rejoicing, the aspiring swordsmen will live in agony. I disagree that dying a lot will make combats more interesting though. To me the lack of 'spice' comes not from how easy the hunt is but the limited options of actions. I am not sure if Nevrax had really thought about all the consequences when they again affect PvE by trying to balance PvP. In the long term I think the best way to solve both problems is to give melee, and the mobs, more specific actions and thus more scenarios and more strategic choices. Unfortunately it appears that Nevrax hasn't committed itself to doing that.

borg9 wrote:Gosh, we don't want Homins running the risk of dying while hunting now do we!

Next they will remove all the aggo from the harvesting areas - oh wait a min they have done that already.

Lol, I REALLY want to know where you dig.

borg9 wrote:And allow us to run away from mobs - oh wait a sec thats been do too.

Doesn't matter much, mobs follow for long enough to kill most players. If they are using ranged attacks (spells or ranged weapons) forget about it, I've been killed INSIDE Pyr by the ranged bandits on the hill next to the ramp into the valley east of the city, I do not know how far that is in meters, but running did no good

borg9 wrote:Then they could reduce the aggro in all the hunting area and buch the ones that are left so that they can be pull off one by one for faster level - eek thats been done as well.

I also want to know where you hunt, heh. There ARE a very few digging and hunting spots like you describe, but please do not pretend that they are the norm.


The fact is that this healing nerf is going to make it almost impossible for healers less than level 100 to level. It will require twice as many healers to keep people alive, as the ONLY way to use your best powers is to use health-credits, and you cannot defeat most 3k mobs without doing so.



New healer-types quitting because they cannot perform any useful function
+
The necessity of twice as many healers
+
New fighter/nuker types quitting because they continually die because there are not enough healers
=
A game almost no-one will want to play, because it is a huge pain in the @$$.



There's my "maths"



OOC:

kratos84 wrote:This is a very good point, there is already a serious lack of healers in game. Obviously making them less powerful and virtually disallowing players to team up with healers lower than their level isn't going to help with the situation. What's ironic is that it is usually the melee who's looking for healers, so who knows, maybe when the 250 melee players who PvP are rejoicing, the aspiring swordsmen will live in agony. I disagree that dying a lot will make combats more interesting though. To me the lack of 'spice' comes not from how easy the hunt is but the limited options of actions. I am not sure if Nevrax had really thought about all the consequences when they again affect PvE by trying to balance PvP. In the long term I think the best way to solve both problems is to give melee, and the mobs, more specific actions and thus more scenarios and more strategic choices. Unfortunately it appears that Nevrax hasn't committed itself to doing that.

I am currently playing another game, which has loads of 'different' spells, however - after 3 days play I have reduce the huge list to the following...

Highest level summoned beastie. (all party members summon to increase dmg and give the tank a bit of space to breath)
Highest level heal, that doesn't drain the healer of mana - even tho I effectively have unlimited health and mana due to town potal+potions.
A tank is there to take the hits, not to deal the dmg.
Magic users to deal the damage and kill the mobs.
Everyone of the party is a healer just to keep the potion consumption reduced and they are on AUTOCAST!

A huge number of spell/combat action will always (by an effective game player) to the a 'perfect set of '!

Sorry for being cynical ..... but in ryzom I use Poison - almost exclusively - why becuase an with an elem+heal +/- 500 dmg makes little to no difference.

The lack of large teams makes the need for affliction almost redunant - 2 vs lvl x mob > XP than 3 vs lvl x+1 mob, kill time in most cases is reduced and therefore teams tend to only use the 'other skills' if the 'other skill' user brings something else, like high level heals for between round healing or high level resists for 'risk free plant hunting' or very high HPs to tank mobs that can't land a hit.


Edit: info for Da Bax!
Harvest:
Level
0-50 - anywhere
50-100 - Winds of Muse (just avoid the cloppers, loads of good clear spots for most mat types)
100-150 - Fount Karavan tp
150-200 - Kami tp EI
200+ Loria ponds - you will need you inv+spd or a sneaking powers to get there.

But being cynical again why spend time digging 'good mats' to grind, if you can grind with junk and make with really good stuff.

Hunting - Elem
Level
0-120 - Stingas, region and star progression as the xp drops
120-170 - Brain thingies in Zoria
170-210 - Onyx/jugs in Grove of confusion
210-230 - Onyx/jugs in Grove of confusion (slightly harder)
230+ - if you can be bothered as the time to level > the benefit Jugs and named mobs

Melee - find a nice friendly elem to leach your XP off

Range - see Elem, but I suggest you get elem+melee+harvest to high levels and craft and shoot self made ammo.

Craft -
Well you have to do something with all the mats you dug or ninja looted

thebax wrote:Lol, I REALLY want to know where you dig.

can only comment on area's i have dug in: Cities of Intuition, Maiden Grove, Grove of Umbra, Void, Gate of Obscurity, Elusive Forest. Add to that anywhere there are the new spiced herbivoires as they effectively turn the zone into a picnic spot.

thebax wrote:Doesn't matter much, mobs follow for long enough to kill most players. If they are using ranged attacks (spells or ranged weapons) forget about it, I've been killed INSIDE Pyr by the ranged bandits on the hill next to the ramp into the valley east of the city, I do not know how far that is in meters, but running did no good

ranged bandits are the most difficult to escape from but its still easy as pie if you run in a straight line. i find it a bit odd that i can happily run from a kirosta patrol these days.

What is the attraction of having a game where you can't die, can't be challenged in any way, have everything handed to you and accessable from the beginning? It would be no fun whatsoever. Almost every aspect of the game has been dumbed down/made easier since release, please, please, please can people stop asking for this to continue!

A game almost no-one will want to play, because it is a huge pain in the @$$.

Ahh, that takes me back to the days after Patch 1...

philu wrote:These changes are going to make my job as a healer harder. My team will die more and I don't like that. And all because of a bunch of fighters whining about mages being too powerful. This change doesn't address the real 'problem', nerf the elementals not me!

I'm sorry, but I have to disagree. Elementalist aren't really that big problem. Sure they damage is very high, what is small problem. Elementalist can kill fast, but if they fails to kill enemies before close combat, only healer can save them. Healers are the ones who makes everyone powerfull.

Now lowering healing is fine, but then there is one major problem. Who gonna be the tank? Healers are the real tanks in Ryzom. Now, without healers teams are really weak and think twize to attack anyting.

I think Dev team should think how to make the roles more correct.

Fighters are the tanks (low damage but high survey in close combat).
Elementalis are the nuke (high damage, but low survey in close combat)
Healers give the ability fight longer, faster and higher enemies without long resting times for teams between fights.

borg9 wrote: A tank is there to take the hits, not to deal the dmg.
Magic users to deal the damage and kill the mobs.

And this is different from Ryzom how?

I fail to understand the point you're trying to make in this post Neun? Specifically in the bit about the other game?