Ryzom

What is the kami tolerance bar?

As you may (or may not know), the kami is against the damageing of Atys and that includes excessive harvesting.
To that end they will allow you to harvest an area for a certain amount of materials and/or damage*, before they will take no more.
The three things that affect kami tolerance are many harvesters in the same area, harmful extraction (gentle affect too, but far less) and gas/explotions of sources.

The kami tolerance is working as it should, so I really don't see a need to change it.

* (Spoiler ahead!) Yes, damage. Those who have the "absorb damage" stanza know that harvesting causes damage to the area.

I will quote a player who allways defended the Developers the Support Staff and such: "I'm aware the merge can bring good things and bad things".

He was right. We have more people now, the game is much more "alive". More players means more customers for crafter, easy time when seaching for a team and so on. But more players means more materials harvested, certain hunting spots has become overcrowded, more bad behaviour in-game under the escuse of rolepay.
And Kami levels are 0 indeed because of amount of extraction done in that areas. I had certain hours when I could go in Dyron and Tessos and find the Kami bar at half. Now, after I tried a couple of times and find the bar way too short for my taste (less then 2 mm) I quit harvesting in those places and moved to FF.
I don't know what's the solution of this problem. A higher rate of Kami regeneration would help indeed, but would not solve the problem. More players will go to harvest there when they'll find out. A personal KT bar would be nice, but this would mess with the whole concept of the game (colective/team work on a living planet).

What I have in mind is really nasty.
Someone is harvesting with KT at 0. He receives messages with "you stole mats... etc" At each 3-rd message he should LOSE 1 point in personal fame with Kami. At each 10 points of personal fame lost, HIS GUILD should lose 1 point. And so on with global fame, with other races... So if ke keeps harvesting, soon he and his guild will be at war with all races in game because of negative fame. In this way would be a lot less players harvesting there.... and the ones who are still harvesting there would be darn wanting to do missions to recover the fame loss. :>
Soon outposts will come in game and fame would be something you don't aford to lose.
(just my 2... dappers)

vutescu wrote:
What I have in mind is really nasty.
Someone is harvesting with KT at 0. He receives messages with "you stole mats... etc" At each 3-rd message he should LOSE 1 point in personal fame with Kami. At each 10 points of personal fame lost, HIS GUILD should lose 1 point. And so on with global fame, with other races... So if ke keeps harvesting, soon he and his guild will be at war with all races in game because of negative fame. In this way would be a lot less players harvesting there.... and the ones who are still harvesting there would be darn wanting to do missions to recover the fame loss. :>
Soon outposts will come in game and fame would be something you don't aford to lose.
(just my 2... dappers)

If you mean losing kami and not gaining karavan:
That would totally unbalance the fame table. Also it wouldn't be fair for players that are kami followers towards karavan followers.

If you mean losing kami and gaining karavan fame, to keep both + and - balanced, then that would be a great easy way to get karavan fame.

Heretic's hovel has almost no harvesters. There are many spots in bog that nobody ever goes to. The Knoll of Dissent, believe it or not, is more than just towerbridge way. GoC has plenty of grinding spots nobody ever goes to. Savage dunes and dunes of exile are both enormous.

TB, the spot by ecowarrior camp, the spot by Fearing Fen Farm, Dyron, Thesos. The reason tolerance is low in these areas is that these areas are overused. There are many other places to get your mats. At the moment I think we have enough kami tolerance to support this server 5 times over. But 90% of the deposits are never used, because nobody is willing to get out of their comfort zone. That isn't justification for changing the kami tolerance, if you ask me.

Another perspective - if the devs change the kami tolerance every time it gets low, what is the point of it? This is a game mechanic with a real purpose, it's designed to prevent players from all mining the same easy sources. And now, we are all mining the same sources. So the kami tolerance is doing its job well, it's time for us players to stop being so lazy.

I think its fine as is. A big part of the problem is the people pulling say q70 or q80 in a q200 zone, using harmful methods (Dyron and Thesos mainly). Just no need for them to be there at all.

Ya know, the Kami tolerance level only does considerable drops when a source is blown, or prematurely destroyed. Kipee Mull in the Witherings is
busy, granted, not as busy as Thesos (which always had low tolerance), but a somewhat close comparison as theres always someone out there digging.

If you want the Kami happy, gee.. Careplan??? Strip mining is everyone's easy get it now I won't waste my time careplanning cuz I'll get more mats without it solution, and now.. People are seeing this as a result.

If *everyone* careplans for a week, avoids blows, gassers, and premature ending of thier sources, and the Kami is still pissed at everyone, then I'll eat my pick and appologize for being way off base.

Didn't we first all whine that the dapper is worth nothing.
Well this is solved now, Now that less materials can be harvested the dappers are worth far more now. The kami levels are okay now, don't have any problems with it.

ozric wrote:I think its fine as is. A big part of the problem is the people pulling say q70 or q80 in a q200 zone, using harmful methods (Dyron and Thesos mainly). Just no need for them to be there at all.

Exactly.
But this is balance.. "Payment" for mats in easy accessible places (near town, tp..).
Same in Grove of Confusion. Kami tolerance bar seriously droped in areas near TP.
Is this problem?
Yes and no.
No - because this is "payment" for digging q250 (up to Excelent) 20-200m from TP.

Yes - because digging not only Experts +, but all lvls.

Many areas are almost always with "full" kamibar.
Because areas hardly accessible / far from TP / etc.
Much faster tp to Grove, than go to other areas where tp isnt working/dont exist.

IMO kami tolerance dont need any adjustments. If Excelent mats available right near guards and water - may be somethink, what balance digged mats quantity...
Just we played on semi empty server, and now, after merge, a little "shocked".

I suppose, this was devs idea from start, and kami tolerance work as it has been conceived.

Some ppl have problem with dropped kamibar, cuz playing after work/etc?
This is social problem, not game unbalance (i mean low lvl foragers digging in q2xx areas)

They may need to change the system so that ql 250 areas give only ql 150 or 200-250 mats. Lots of people just go straight to lvl 250 areas after reaching lvl 50 or 100 harvest or so.
Why waste time learning all the mats locations in a certain region if 50 lvls later you need to move on to a new region and leave behind all the effort you put in finding locations?
I had searched and put landmarks of most excellent mats in Liberty Lakes region on the map (but back then there was a low landmark limit so had to delete most of them again). Now i can't do anything at all with them.

An even better change however, would be to make it much easier to get mats in for example a lvl 100-150 area safely than a 200-250.
In some lands this is somewhat the case (like tryker, but the 150-200 areas are harder than 200-250 imho). In Tryker there are very little harvesters in Lagoons of Loria (200-250) partially because most lower lvl harvesters stick to Fount (100-150).

Fyros however, is rather messed up indeed. If it wasn't for Kami Tolerance, it would be easier to get mats in a ql 200 area than ql 50-150!

thewarcc wrote: Well this is solved now, Now that less materials can be harvested the dappers are worth far more now.

Sorry but this just makes no sense at all... ?

More materials can be harvested after patch 1 than before.
I don't see what this has to do with dappers. Maybe you mean more people are buying materials from the vendors?

Ok thanks for the responce so far..
It's all interesting stuff

Just a few notes to anyone who thinks I'm aiding in the problem..

I myself only dig the Q lvl I need to.
I Dig in the places I can get to without dieing.
And I almost always use Gental Extracting on my sources and also do my best to stop them from dieing/blowing.
(If only everybody did huh..)

Now back to the point.. apparently from what I've heard.. The Kami lvl in most places was ok.. (emphasis on most) so really as I see it the only balances from this merge which need changing are the game controled ones.. Like the Kami Tol..

Everything else should be fairly well balanced. (ie)

There are more people crafting but theres also more people buying..
Theres more new people to recruit to guilds but theres also more guilds to choose from..

and so on..