Ryzom

aight, sorry, didn't read it fully ^^

Some very good points usinuk (can't wait to read your forthcoming DPM summary), range does seem to need a bit of tweaking still but I think Nevrax are worried about it being exploitable.

However...

Regarding heavy armour: I've not tried the dodge/parry/feint/crit credits with range. My points was that you can at least dodge/parry attacks which AFAIK you can't when using magic (I'm not a big magic user so may be wrong). The stamina usage IS too high and increased hit rate does nothing to help this. Also (this may be a misconception ) it seems like I dodge more when moving.

Perhaps hit rate should be made cheaper - why do I need so much stamina just to pull a trigger more rapidly? A cheaper version of accurate attack for weapons would be good too.

Regarding kiting: I level range at fourways (lvl 72 although my rifle is gathering dust atm), there's a lot of room to run around and plenty to kill. There are at least three types of creature I can kite without receiving a single hit whether I'm using decent ammo which takes half a clip or basic grind ammo that takes just over a clip. I know about the turning around problem (a bug) but I just make sure I'm runnng when I start firing. This does make the question of armour a no-brainer though - light all the way! This may change at higher levels but I've noticed that timari and yelk are particularly slow.

Regarding you DPM calculation: you've based this on using two daggers, hence you're getting twice the damage. Compare one dagger with increased damage and it looks like you'll get similar DPM. Seems like we need to be able to dual wield pistols

Regaring ammo types: this sounds like a bug to me if slashing doesn't work on slashing-weak creatures etc.

Regarding crafting: I craft heavy armour with hp boost and have over 1000 spare SP now which will double when I get all the hiqh quality plans. With all trees you've got to generalise a bit to get the most out of your specialisation. Making both 2H ammo and 1H at the split at lvl 50 should get plenty of SP early on.

The ammo plans are 40SP compared to 30SP but you only need to buy one and a weapon plan (30SP) to get started in range. Then you can buy the other two for that weapon so that's 150SP which is the same as getting the plans for light/medium armour. There are no medium or high quality plans for ammo - my suggestion is for high level (150 perhaps) crafters to be able to make some special ammo to make range a bit different to melee.

I agree that range is a secondary role and it needs a bit of fine tuning and bug fixing. I'd like to see it separate further from melee so people have to specialise and that specialisation should pay off.

boinged wrote:Regarding crafting: I craft heavy armour with hp boost and have over 1000 spare SP now which will double when I get all the hiqh quality plans. With all trees you've got to generalise a bit to get the most out of your specialisation. Making both 2H ammo and 1H at the split at lvl 50 should get plenty of SP early on.

The ammo plans are 40SP compared to 30SP but you only need to buy one and a weapon plan (30SP) to get started in range. Then you can buy the other two for that weapon so that's 150SP which is the same as getting the plans for light/medium armour. There are no medium or high quality plans for ammo - my suggestion is for high level (150 perhaps) crafters to be able to make some special ammo to make range a bit different to melee.

When you craft armour, you want to make full set and you must get all relevant branches to lvl 150 for HQ plans. This will result in thousands of spare SP.

If you craft ranged, you don't have to finish all branches to get meaningful results. Same branch works for particular ranged weapon and its ammo. However, you must buy q upgrades separately to weapon and ammo once every 10 lvls. This will eventually cost half of your all ranged crafting SP if you concentrate something like rifle. You might also like HP or STAM bonus to your weapon? That will cost extra 40SP for each 10 lvls (getting both will be 80SP). You might also be interested to get some addiotional stats with your SP, but you can't afford all those increments.

My point is that a specialized range crafter doesn't have enough SP to buy any of the current ammo plans, better weapon plans or most stat increments. Let alone any additional plans that might be introduced later.

@mmatto

ammo quality upgrade = 25 SP
weap quality upgrade = 25 SP
HP bonus upgrade = 40 SP

so, every 10 craft level (100 SP) you use 90 SP to get all upgrade

- so, from 21 to 50
290 SP earned, less 270 SP for upgrade, no spare sp for new ammo or med-q weapon (40 sp plan too eek!!)
- from 51 to 100 (2H weap craft)
490 SP earned, less 360 SP for upgrade, 130 spare SP for mmh an autolaunch (-30), a med-q rifle plan (-40) and slash ammo for rifle (-40) oops no more SP for autolaunch ammo

and so on... so to get spare SP, you need to both craft 1H and 2H weapon craft, or after level 100 craft, start doing both launcher/autolauncher/rifle specialization ... as an armor crafter have to skills up all tree ...

it's a pain but its funny

other way to calculate : to get all the rifle plans :
slash ammo (40) + pierce ammo (40) + blunt ammo (40) = 120 SPs
basic plan (30) + medium plan (40) + high plan (50) = 120 SPs
You need to be level 150 craft too. so 15 * 25sp for weapon quality upgrade, adding 15 * 25sp for ammo quality upgrade, and 15*40 sps for HP upgrade...
375+375+600+120+120=1590 skill points required. oops there is only 1500 skills point available when level150

okay this is juste "FYI", i'm not really complaining. hopefully ammo and weapons are in the same skill trees.

my 2 cents :
- how mob can dodge a rifle shot, i really wonder. When you miss, you miss so there is no damage! but when the mob dodge the bullet, woa -- j/K
- more seriously, mobs can also dodge AOE of autolaunch/launch ... again, wrong statement in the syst info window !


but all those fact are small fries. From an overall point of view better to say that :
if nevrax is really willing to make a mmog universal engine, they have to listen our crazy suggestion about suppressing fire, blast, concussion, handgrenade and mmh... gatling, plasma rifle (slow motion ammo) and laser beam
Ryzom gameplay may not include all those crazy cyberpunk scifi guns, but NeL engin should be able to handle them.
If the devs restart from scratch and think about a range-mainly world with very wide choice and actions, i'm sure they'll fix the issues (a good topic start : "how can we use NeL to convert a very famous post-nuclear rpg game into a mmorpg..." *hint* *nudge* *poke* )

It'd be really cool to see a Matrix-style ninja Yubo dodging bullets.

When ranging sometimes the mobs dodge bullits already! They do it so fast, I cannot even see it!

About the crafting, the world turned upside down is the jewelcrafting. After lvl 50, the tree splits without anything new but lvls, a pure sp mine

Crythos, I know you are weird, and I would like to lv range too. But for some reason.... I hit for about 450 damage atm, back to range would mean like 70~80 damage. If I do damage at all...

About the stamina, heh, I like the mis calculation made by the devs.

Example
Normal hitrate. time per shot = 5 secs, used stam = 5. Stam used per second 1
Hitrate +1. time per shot 4 secs, used stam = 10. Stam used per second 2.5
Hitrate +2. time per shot 3 secs, used stam = 15. Stam used per second 5
Hitrate +3. time per shot 2 secs, used stam = 20. Stam used per second 10
Hitrate +4. time per shot 1 secs, used stam = 25. Stam used per second 25
Hitrate +5. time per shot .5 secs, used stam = 30. Stam used per second 60

1, 2.5, 5, 10, 25, 60
Please add accurate attack to this.

This has been bugging me for some time.... I am thinking about buying myself some very good stambonusses so I can craft myself a stam light armor....

I can imagine this discussion in the Nevrax offices:
- Guys, how is the ranged fight going?
+ Ehm, what?
- Ranged fight, you know, the guns we had in design.
+ Ah, *that* ranged fight, yes. Well the designer that made it up, he is kinda dead.
- Kinda?
+ Well, completely actually. So no news on ranged fight...
- But the game will go live in a few months. How complete are the designs he made?
+ Workable.
- Workable? As in, the programmers can fill in the gaps based on intelligent judgement or more like, we have no clue, you have no clue and the programmers will just do whatever and the customers will probably point out the major bugs.
+ Yes.
- Yes what?
+ Yes to that, sir. ooohhh, is it that time already? Gotta run!
*sound of door banging shut*
- Merde!

(I am in a silly mood, cannot play Ryzom atm, but now attempting the new install on this old hog I am camping near