alibasil wrote:Also if kami races (fyros and esp zorai) should be penalised for over mining like you suggest- in what way do you think karavan sided races should be penalised?
borg9 wrote:The difference here is the Karavan, only SAY don't go in the roots. They are preserving the materials found there for their 'True' faithful.... The Kuilde.
Actually, I'm not suggesting that Kami-lovers be penalized over Kara-lovers; not my intent whatsoever. The only point about Dyron was that it was rather surprising seeing nominal Kami-lovers doing stuff that should make the Kami rather mad more so than any other of the 5 regions.
I just think that
anyone who stripmines should in fact be targeted by the fluffy guys; it just makes a whole lot of sense that they ain't gonna like you if you keep testing their tolerance. There's no reason why someone who is Matis and strip mines shouldn't go to -100 kami fame either, with resultant consequences. If you get 'me kami mad!' then you should face the music regardless of your race.
In fact, I'd argue that if you were to do anything to distinguish between the races, you should probably up the tolerance level before fame reduction for Zorai/Fyros. One of the reasons I originally played a Zorai in beta was that I figured, 'jeez, these guys are liked by the Kami so probably don't have to worry about tolerance dropping as much.' (That and that only Zorai and Matis would not crash my ATI card.) Ended up being wrong, of course. It would only make sense that within Fyros/Zorai that those players are the 'chosen ones' when harvesting in their own lands and that it would take a little more to get their protectors mad than a Matis harvesting there.
As far as Karavan and roots, jeez, I don't know (and I need to read the lore section again.) Maybe establish a minimum Kara fame level before you go harvesting in the roots or they'll ding you for it somehow? But that would make you effectively choose sides very quickly - and with a lot more consequence and speed for harvesters than for any other class - and I'm not sure that's fair given I do think there's a place in the game for neutrals. I just think that it makes sense from a game mechanics standpoint that if you test the Kami tolerance regardless of race they will 'notice' you.
Note by the way that I'm not suggesting you 'gain' a Kara point here either if you lose a Kami point harvesting - too easy of an exploit to build fame. And I don't get the feeling the Karavan care one way or the other how you pull mats. They're oblivious to you exploiting the land for yourself, which is not the same as being pleased when you exploit it for them!
kostika wrote:Even if you are gentle, you will cause the tolerance to lower a little still.
petej wrote:Another related issue is low lvl harvesters exploiting resources in a high lvl area (particularly bad if its someone with high skills gained in another harvest branch -harmfull rate 6 in an otherwise full gentle extract eats the kami bar in no time)...resources should be "Too Hard to Find" in an area >50 above your lvl regardless of what skills you use
Fair point. But I'm not talking a 2% drop, I'm talking like 5-10%. It takes some pretty concerted high rate aggro digging, source exhaustion, and explosions to move the bar that much by yourself or on your team. Also, I'd suggest that like everything else this hit would clear after a little bit - so that if you don't dig for an hour after getting close to a fame hit, you're basically able to start over again.
And yeah, I see that in the roots a lot. Did wonders in preexhausting a supreme/excellent source (not sure if it does after the latest tweak), which is when I start yelling at level 51 PR harvesters using q150 stanzas and aggro 5. I also have encountered a level 19 harvester in Dyron, which just blew my mind - a lvl 19 harvester in a 200 area?! (Told them to go back to Pyr, but they weren't interested.)
But I don't think level limits are necessary - I think the +10 stanza limitation for stable sources is enough to keep non-natives behaving, and penalizing fame if you take down tolerance would be enough of a limit so that they will have to watch what they use until they should be able to use it, especially when higher agro rate/speed drops tolerance more quickly. It would also severely penalize younger crafters who need certain mats, which may be easier to get in a higher level zone. (I remember way back when doing q50 weapons and having a miserable time finding a stable q50 choice oath/big shell source in Majestic Garden, where in q100 Fleeting Garden turned out they are right by the TPs. Hours upon hours wasted. D'oh!)
kostika wrote:Suggested 'penalty' for causing the tolerance to hit zero would be forced DP. IE when the Kami kills you, you can't be res'ed. Forced respawn. I don't think this is too harsh given you can easily avoid this happening if you're gentle
Yeah, forced respawn if the kami blows you up is a nice idea. I like it.
But I don't think it solves the issue.
First problem with this as a deterrent is that once you start getting warnings at 0 it makes no difference if you use gentle or aggro before 'me kami mad!" ends up appearing and you get that neat glow around you with 6k worth of damage. I've tested this myself.
But the real problem is that if you come to the source when its at 1%, there are currently no consequences for the person who took it down 99% before you. I know it probably doesn't suit high level Kami-aligned harvesters' self-interest (a couple who have posted, heh heh) to be forced to be a little more careful how they harvest. But it makes tons of sense in the grand scheme of things that if you want to keep your Kami faction high you shouldn't do things that obviously annoy them. Otherwise, your actions are aligning yourself against them and should be treated as such, which is solvable by atoning for your sins by running Kami missions if you want to remain Kami-aligned and solvable by being a Kami enemy at -100 kami fame if you don't.
Just my two cents, and not that any suggestion outside of the French board has much of a chance of making it in the game anyway.
). You may have noticed that the more damage done to you when you die (the "left over" between the damage and your hp before the hit) the less time you have before you respawn. This can be seen by low hp people attacking Aen and getting unluckily hit by all the guards at once, forcing an "instaspawn".
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