Frustration and Disappointment

[zzeii]

As for it being rigged so we got the baby-sitter version of the mobs... well, we took out a kitin patrol with maybe three teams. Are they easier in Zora too? You're saying that the cutes you faced were tougher than a kitin patrol?

And as for the co-ordination, there was a lot of that going on. I was listening through most of it. There was a heck of a lot of organisation, which helps.

There were disadvantages in the Karavan side, yes, but not fair to simply dismiss us as getting the gimped pre-school version out of pity.... tchaa. We came, we saw, we kicked butt. At least give us some credit here.

Tin.

What occured in the roots isn't something to try and compare, due to the fact, had the karavan side made it there first, they would have had the same obstacles I would have imagined. Just like you can't compare the coordination of either side because no one was on both sides at the same time. The fact that on all servers, the Kami had completed the entire event before the karavan forces had even finished their 1st region scripting, does raise some questions about the overall balance of the event.

Which does raise another point. With the fact of the story being dynamic, it could possibly be the intentions of the devs to set up certain events where one side is at an advantage, while the other is not. Just an idea.

No one is saying that you didn't do a good job, because you guys did a great job, and had destroyed the source of the problem. It was a great service to Atys, for this was causing the problems for BOTH sides. Of which I, personally, thank you for it. Be proud to have save the lands from a dire threat, but please, don't turn this into a 'which side is more uber' discussion. When it comes down to it, when has saving your lands ever been a competition? Both sides were trying to rid the source of the goo infestation of the cutes and gibbai, I am glad it was accomplished, even if I wasn't there personally to do so. But I am proud to have done my best in defending Atys.

As to be on topic for the thread now...

Global fame may be nice, but from my experiences pre-patch 1, 100 global fame didn't get you the best pricing, you still could lower the prices by increasing your personal fame. So I imagine that you will still need a high personal fame to get access to a number of things. And guild fame will also be needed for guild missions with dealing with the tribes. Admittedly now with the set pricing, it is not evident the effects of higher personal/guild fame, but I'm sure they plan on having benefits for those work beyond getting global fame to 100.

[madnak]

Yes, I think we did find the leader eventually. That was on our last trip, and his forces wiped us out. Then the Karavan commander told us to stop. You guys did a great job, and you deserve your titles. But I do think the balance was set against the Karavan forces.

[tetra]

What occured in the roots isn't something to try and compare, due to the fact, had the karavan side made it there first, they would have had the same obstacles I would have imagined. Just like you can't compare the coordination of either side because no one was on both sides at the same time. The fact that on all servers, the Kami had completed the entire event before the karavan forces had even finished their 1st region scripting, does raise some questions about the overall balance of the event.

Which does raise another point. With the fact of the story being dynamic, it could possibly be the intentions of the devs to set up certain events where one side is at an advantage, while the other is not. Just an idea.

No one is saying that you didn't do a good job, because you guys did a great job, and had destroyed the source of the problem. It was a great service to Atys, for this was causing the problems for BOTH sides. Of which I, personally, thank you for it. Be proud to have save the lands from a dire threat, but please, don't turn this into a 'which side is more uber' discussion. When it comes down to it, when has saving your lands ever been a competition? Both sides were trying to rid the source of the goo infestation of the cutes and gibbai, I am glad it was accomplished, even if I wasn't there personally to do so. But I am proud to have done my best in defending Atys.

As to be on topic for the thread now...

Global fame may be nice, but from my experiences pre-patch 1, 100 global fame didn't get you the best pricing, you still could lower the prices by increasing your personal fame. So I imagine that you will still need a high personal fame to get access to a number of things. And guild fame will also be needed for guild missions with dealing with the tribes. Admittedly now with the set pricing, it is not evident the effects of higher personal/guild fame, but I'm sure they plan on having benefits for those work beyond getting global fame to 100.

Gezus christ on a god damned Giraffe riding a pogo-stick! There have been enough Karavan aligned forces trying to claim that the mobs on the Kami side were easier to kill we killed the raiding mobs on the Karavan side and they are the same... Furthermore, it wouldn't have made a difference anyways considering we were able to eat a kitin patrol when many of our forces were back defending something that didn't need to be defended... that is the reason for bringing up the fact that we thumped a kitin patrol.

It's very easy to compare the coordination of both sides however Zzeii... You have gone out with us over teamspeak and through things like the trip around the world, were able to easily see how well it works. We did amazing things, like stopping a herd of 40-60+ folks rather quickly and doubling back to stop the folks 125M+ back from getting mulched. We were able to do things like that, because we had the majority of the high level folks in TS able to react incredibly quickly, TS allows us to report, question, assess, and react to a problem in about the same time someone could even type in there was mobs somewhere. Furthermore, you guys didn't use much if any of something like teamspeak... When I poked my head in klient chat after the event and saw you complaining, I asked if you were using any voicechat programs like we were with TS and your answer was somewhere along the lines of "a little"...

[zumwalt]

Kami played there event and won on all servers, regardless of circumstances.
Karavan played there event and lost to my knowledge on all servers, again regardless of circumstances.

As I stated in my very first post, the reward to everyone involved, win or loose, should just be satisfaction to have played the event, no fame, no title.

Both of these events should have been delt with the exact same way the Kitin Invasion was treated on Matis lands.

We played the event from start to finish, killed all the primary goal Kitins in every over run town, enjoyed ourselves, didnt' gain fame or title, just had fun.

Now they are turning this into a deadlock.

As for my personal oppinion, No, no one on any server deserve Fame for the completion of any event, fame is hard earned not through a single night of battles, but through hundreds of tasks from each nation.

Title, still I think this one is debateable, considering that one event should not denote you earned a title, regardless of its outcome, maybe "POINTS" twords a title, just like you have to earn levels in certain areas to earn a title, so no, you never earned the title.

As was also stated by someone else in the thread, all you really had to do was to group up with the 'experience' team and target the leader you saved, and poof, congradulations, you got a title, ohh and by the way, you get fame, thanks for logging in tonight, that was a great 5 minutes of your time.

I don't personally care if you were in the event from the start to finish, you got free fame, free title, wether you were there from the first minute or you were there in the home stretch, maybe you felt you earned this fame or earned this title, but honestly, in a pure roleplaying sense, you did not.

Who knows, this could have been the ONLY event in the entire game you have participated in, and only thing you should have gotten out of it was the sense of accomplishment, wether you had won, or lost.

That is what the karavan on every server walked away from the event with, a sense of accomplishment.

As far as comparing the "patrol" in the roots to the "cute trackers", there are no comparison, I can personally hit the mobs in a "patrol" and do up to 328 a swing on them and never miss, as far as the cute trackers and leader, the trackers I could hit 1 in 5 swings and only do about 128 damage regardless of weapon choice or skill choice, as far as the leader, that was a 1 in 10 swing with around 90 damage, do you see the difference? I don't think you do since you are comparing apples and grapes.

One thing I hope comes from this, is that the developers that setup events or gm's that setup events in the future learn from this mistake and make events equally balanced.

Oh I forgot to mention, you went through the roots when there were still guardians which means that the enterance to zoria lands where still clear for you to get back to town.

Well, I was in zoria at the start of your event, and the tunnel into the roots had over 250 creatures guarding it that hit me for between 500 and 2500, so no, I am afraid you and your team did not actually see the danger at the roots tunnel enterance, because simply, they would have never gotten past the tunnel with anything other than respawning in town.

(yes I saw on radar nothing but a solid orange area from the tunnel base to 250 meters out)

Congradulations on winning, to all servers for winning the Kami event, but don't expect me to be happy about how the karavan side was setup.

[gralen]

Yes, I think we did find the leader eventually. That was on our last trip, and his forces wiped us out. Then the Karavan commander told us to stop. You guys did a great job, and you deserve your titles. But I do think the balance was set against the Karavan forces.

I don't think it was intentional though, at least not entirely.

The Karavan may have intentionally misinformed you and I personally hold with that theory as I do not believe the Karavan wanted you to actually succeed but wanted you to, yet again, have to rely on the powers of the Karavan to liberate you. I think the success of the Kami forces thwarted that plan. Had the Karavan's minions flooded our lands with more infected Gibbaïs and Cutes, then the tables may have been turned but they would have turned to the intent of the Karavan which, as I've said, I believe was to have us all fail.

As to the game mechanics that caused difficulties (Liberty Lake Lag and Crash - hereafter known as LLLaCtose intolerance - the distance from viable respawns, the already crowded populations of BB, etc), I do not believe that they were anticipated nor intended to cause problems.

[neofuzz]

I'm a Kami Champion! neener neener neener

[swayzo]

Well I been trying to work on having negative fame. Hmmm just can't seem to get it for kami. I been killing worshipers and stuff.

[gralen]

Well I been trying to work on having negative fame. Hmmm just can't seem to get it for kami. I been killing worshipers and stuff.

Do Karavan missions.

[vaquero1]

Thank you Zzeii I was waiting fo a good statment of what happened on the karavan side. What I heard was what other players had told me on the karavan side (As i stated b4 in my post) I was not there. I was with my kami brothers.

[tinpony]

No one is saying that you didn't do a good job, because you guys did a great job, and had destroyed the source of the problem. It was a great service to Atys, for this was causing the problems for BOTH sides. Of which I, personally, thank you for it. Be proud to have save the lands from a dire threat, but please, don't turn this into a 'which side is more uber' discussion. When it comes down to it, when has saving your lands ever been a competition? Both sides were trying to rid the source of the goo infestation of the cutes and gibbai, I am glad it was accomplished, even if I wasn't there personally to do so. But I am proud to have done my best in defending Atys.

As to be on topic for the thread now...

Global fame may be nice, but from my experiences pre-patch 1, 100 global fame didn't get you the best pricing, you still could lower the prices by increasing your personal fame. So I imagine that you will still need a high personal fame to get access to a number of things. And guild fame will also be needed for guild missions with dealing with the tribes. Admittedly now with the set pricing, it is not evident the effects of higher personal/guild fame, but I'm sure they plan on having benefits for those work beyond getting global fame to 100.

Zzei, I have nothing but respect for you and the actions of the Karavan folks during the raid. I don't in any way want to come off as screaming uber. It frustrates me that in Around Chat, in Region chat and on the Boards, those of us who played get dismissed as having been given something for nothing. Yes, there were some problems with Karavan side scripting, but nobody walked up to a bunch of people sun-tanning in MinCho and handed them a bunch of titles.

My point is, whatever the Karavan issues, the Kami side worked darn hard for what we got and a lot of the issues being raised for the karavan side were present on the Kami side. I can't say anything about the organisation, planning or implimentation of the Karavan side and I certainly wouldn't want to come off saying you guys were bad therefore you failed when I know the opposite is true.

The fact is, we had chain respawns. We had 100m aggro. We had group wipes. We had misinformation/misunderstandings about who and where the tribes are we had to fight. We went to the wrong site first, not realising the tribes had to be killed in sequence. We sacrificed a whole team based on a bad assumption. Our mobs were of the same level as yours, as far as I saw. Every walk to a camp was through an area of 150+ highly aggro mobs including some nasty named. Many of the issues on the Karavan side are on the Kami.

As for the fame thing, I have no problem with it degrading because a 'well what have you done for me lately' attitude is common everywhere. Fame for the event? No problem. You get fame for killing 1 or 2 Black Circle tribe members. Why wouldn't you get fame for being in a strike force killing hundreds? Or killing their leaders? The raid was not just one big event, it was an accumulation of hundreds of small events and is balanced accordingly.

Why is making 7 q5 gloves at L130 a more 'legit' way to gather fame than killing hundreds of L150+, L200+ enemies? Why is repeating the MinCho Anitkami killer mission a hundred times more legit than doing it once big time? Maybe what needs to happen in to start phasing out low level kami missions like XP on mobs. Eventually, gathering 5 pieces of q2 kipee meat will no longer give you fame and you have to move on to level appropriate missions. I worked off 16 points of negative Fyros faction doing the same four missions from the Fyros welcomer and hunter in Pyr over and over and over (taget an izam, kill vigorous kipees, kill L50 bandits, taget gingo... woo. there's the reason I've been honing my melee skills).

Should there be a title for those who work up to high Kami/Karavan faction through other means? Sure.

Tin.

[Edited for spelling and a bit more on fame]