Launchers and autolaunchers... calling out the inexperienced trolls

[elfmatic]

Interesting, Cerest.
Why is ist always the "Range-Lovers" fraction to be stopped talking?

Cerest's post had nothing to do with stopping Tetra from talking about ranged, it had to do with "name calling". I don't know if he did or not, just seems like you misunderstood what was said.

~Elf

[cerest]

Actually, I reread the thread and there isn't any "name calling" per se. So I do apologize to Tetra for that remark.

[jenuviel]

Actually, I reread the thread and there isn't any "name calling" per se. So I do apologize to Tetra for that remark.

Oh, come on now, Cerest- we all know you hunt down anyone whose name begins with "T" due to that building block incident that occurred when you were two. From the rumors I've been hearing in chat rooms, Sesame Street even stopped airing episodes sponsored by the letter "T" just to avoid the angry mail! The first step to recovery is admitting you have a problem. I'm sure there's a Twelve-step program-..err, maybe an Eleven-step program that can help! (I think I'll join one too, since it's pretty clear I can't control what I type when I have free time.)

[foreverb]

I dont have the weight for launcher ammo but its 15 bulk PER rocket. armor is 7 bulk per piece and i'm pretty sure jewelry is 2 bulk per piece. Launchers have a bulk of 30 themselves. Now you'll want a pike (15 bulk) or other weapon so when you run out of ammo on that last mob you can kill it. Or if you get attacked by something you cant kill with the gun you'll need a weapon to kill it with.

2 bulk x10 jewelry
7 bulk x6 pieces for heavy armor
15 bulk x1 melee weapon
30 bulk x1 Launcher

thats a total of 107 bulk before ammo.

this leaves 193 bulk on your toon IF you destroy your pick, and all your tools.

193 bulk/ 15 bulk per rocket = 12 rockets. thats right, you can carry a grand total of 2 clips of launcher ammo.

How do you expect anyone to level from 100-250 on 12 rockets per outing? just the time it would take to run back to town every few kills is a huge waist.

Also, the mats needed for Launcher ammo are 4 resin, 4 oil, 4 oil. Which yields 3 rockets.




Yurtalpus


ps. yes, launcher ammo uses oil twice. And i'm not posative about the armor bulk.. i'll check tonight some time.

[tetra]

So we have one person attacking me... and one obviously highly experienced person who couldn't even figure out the proper names for autolaunchers and launchers so decided that "autolaunchers and rockets or whatever" was close enough that came out and told us how it was obvious nobody was meant to use launchers/autolaunchers, and that making them viable would make them so amazingly overpowered that it was a waste of time to explain this reasoning to the clueless folks who have actually used them...

Right....

Anyone else wanna try?

Interesting, Cerest.
Why is ist always the "Range-Lovers" fraction to be stopped talking?

Nevertheless, enough people on the german server are angry about rangefight, but we have complained enough. We will wait. How long will depend on the amount of ignorance Nevrax will show in the future (as if there was not already enough exclusion of the players) regarding the fact that all rangeplayers are complaining about unbalanced gameplay.

I spent a good part of last night reading some of the ranged threads over there through [url=altavista.com/babelfish]babelfish[/url] and was glad to see that it almost seems to be an even bigger issue over there for more folks .

[lyrah68]

I just hope this discussion does not start a nerf chain effect. In other games, I wish it was JUST EQ the FATHER of the nerf bat, that ever used nerfs to "ballance" the classes; but truth is MANY if not most games out there have at one point OVER used Nerfing...all in the name of ballance.


It is kinda like the US public school system, at least the ones that I went to. Instead of helping those that learned slower to learn faster, or allowing faster learners into advanced classes, EVERYONE went at the speed of the lowest common denominator.

The MAIN thing I like about this game is I am NOT forced to be ONE class. JUST a mage, JUST a ranged fighter, JUST a close combat melee, JUST a dagger wielder, I can and have built up as MANY skills as I thought I would/could use.

During beta, when the ranged ammon crafting was borked up, I picked up two daggers, a one hander sword and magic start and off I went. NO I haven't looked back. Besides, Tryker pistols look like HAIR DRYERS, I had more than a little trouble getting past killing mobs with a Conair 2000. I mean with the HUGE purple Mall hair...I would NEED the hair dryer of DOOM, but that is another matter.

I am not sure if damage was nerfed in patch one, but on my Tryker that I dumped week two or three. I was killing KIPPEES at level 12 with a JUNK pistol and JUNK ammo. I made the ammo from the junk I quartered off the mobs. According to SOME of the stats...the bullets should not have even left the barrel (range of ZERO) and I got a 31 m range 65 damage Q6 ammo *boggles* This ammo was doing on average 65 to 75 points PER hit.

With THIS info I would have called it GROSSLY overpowered, at level 15 that is. I never bothered with working on it further, Gun just are NOT my thing.

Some "don't do crafting!" I do crafting and enjoy it, a difference in play styles.

And if you are talking about ME attacking you...you are grossly mistaken. I do not attack, I might disagree with someone, but I do NOT insult or name call. And if I am wrong about something I admit it.

NO I don't know about guns that much, other than vagueness I heard in region. But I do know not having guns would NOT be the end of the game....for me, and also for many others. Prolly WOULD be the end for others, but then the end of the game for others was likely the lack of ubber leet phat lewts. (not saying you are part of the leeters or not).

Does ranged need looking into, likely so, but then MUCH of the game needs a tad of a gentle nudge. I don't think it makes sense that the con of a mob is four star and I can solo it, except for gingos, where I can take a one star, but a two start will OWN me, and a three star will two or three hit me.

But I am not going to start going on the offensive about the issues I don't agree with. I have no axe to grind, seems you do Tetra.

And Cerest, you were RIGHT, he was attacking people that disagreed with him. You were in the RIGHT to call him on the carpet. Not for his views on Ranged, but for HOW he voiced his feelings about people that disagreed with him.

Tetra, if you state your case...without the character assassinations, your point will be MUCH better stated than if you turn to name calling, insults and other less civilized means.


Quoting you:
So we have one person attacking me... and one obviously highly experienced person who couldn't even figure out the proper names for autolaunchers and launchers so decided that "autolaunchers and rockets or whatever" was close enough that came out and told us how it was obvious nobody was meant to use launchers/autolaunchers, and that making them viable would make them so amazingly overpowered that it was a waste of time to explain this reasoning to the clueless folks who have actually used them...

Right....

Anyone else wanna try?

End quote
This would be called goading on a fight. It does NOT make your point. IF a dev other than Cerest WAS reading your thread, THIS would be the point where they left it as not worthy of further interest. NOT due to you not having a valid point. It is your delivery that was off.

[tetra]

a really long post

Since one of the quotes I decided to pull in my original post was yours, I'll assume that your justification for why ranged combat and launchers/autolaunchers especially should remain nonvaible due to their insanely overpowered abilities is because

1. You have so much experience and are such an expert on the subject of ranged weapons because you haven't used ranged weapons in a very long time and somehow missed an old patch where they changed ranged weapons so that the ammo was no longer backwards in that basic mats made great ammo and choice mats made ammo with 0 damage... All those posts from people posting current numbers with choice/excellent/surpeme mat ammo are obviously lies since ammo did "GROSSLY overpowered" amounts of damage before it was changed

2. You are sure that fixing the amazingly nonviable ranged weapons that are obviously meant only for raids where you would be better off trying to punch mobs to death, would mean the death of every other class and involve nerfing everything down to their level... because obviously the "please fix damage/mat consumption/burden on ammo" is the same as "please make melee weapons/mage amps use thousands of mats or break after a single mob or two"

3. You are not the person who I called out as attacking me, that particular person is the only one to have come out and attack me without saying anything at all about the thread.

4. Cerest commented towards me because my thread was inflamitory and I clicked the "report this post" button on post number 2 where I was attacked and someone tried to threadcrap in the thread. Of course you seem to find it easier to attack me again and try to claim that I'm calling you a troll or something, rather than participate in the thread... not really supprising considering the last time you said that fixing ranged would be unbalancing, you did the same thing when your post was pointed out as being clueless and uninformed.

5. It's ok that ranged weapons are borked because some of the tryker ranged weapons look like beauty supplies.

6. It's great that ranged weapons are borked because folks that want to use ranged weapons to kill things should just suck it up and be a melee or a mage, because getting back to your earlier point... it's obvious that those "please fix the burden/mat use/damage on ranged weapons" requests from folks are really just hidden "please nerf the everliving hell out of melee/magic so it too is not really viable at best"... an idea similar to this came up in one of the threads I read on the german forum... when people asked if he actually used ranged and pointed out how silly the comment was, he never returned.. wonder if you will?

7. Because the con system isn't as gradiated as you would like, it's fine that ranged weapons are not really viable at best, all the way to utterly worthless and unusable depending on the weapon. After all, changing a few decimal points and moving some numbers is obviously an order of magnitude more work than redoing the entire con system to suit your needs and desires .


So now that we have the basis of your point down... do you actually want to try commenting on why with your obviously vast amounts of experience, ranged weapons like launchers and autolaunchers are "NOT meant for normal game play" because "it would be HIGHLY unballancing for it to weigh the same as other MUCH less powerful ammo.". Or why you think "understand this item and its ammo, it is meant for invasions, where you need to wipe out HUGE numbers of mobs, SO you would have one player, near the stables (have the ammo ON the packer IN the stables, you can still reach into the packer with it SAFELY in the stables and have all IT can carry on it), you load up and BLAM(think thermo nuclear explosion), then when needed reach into packer and yank more ammo out, reload, and BLAM away again." when the DPS is far lower than melee and magic, and the mat use is exponentially higher than either of them?

or are you just going to spew out more uses of your CAPS LOCK KEY in an attempt to make it look like you HAVE A POINT... when it's really clueless and uninformed rambling by someone who hasn't used ranged weapons in so long that they didn't even notice that the mats were switched to no longer work backwards on ammo a long time ago?

[fellgrim]

Perhaps it would be easier to kill mobs by crushing them to death with the huge piles of mats needed to make launcher/autolauncher ammo?

[svayvti]

Launchers were viable to level up with pre-patch 1.

I'm a forager so I'd forage a ton of mats for ammo. Jesdyr would make them into ammo for me and blowing up herds I'd go. This is because Launchers do double the damage of auto-launchers and seem to have a larger blast radius. The trick was finding lower level herds where you could get a ton of exp off of them.

I wouldn't try it now because I'd be afraid that even the 1 critter which lived after the first couple blasts would do so much damage as to slaughter me. I'd have to go after much easier stuff that would make it not worth my time.

Even now combat is a lot better again, but not so much as I'd want to waste so many mats practicing this.

[tetra]

Launchers were viable to level up with pre-patch 1.

I'm a forager so I'd forage a ton of mats for ammo. Jesdyr would make them into ammo for me and blowing up herds I'd go. This is because Launchers do double the damage of auto-launchers and seem to have a larger blast radius. The trick was finding lower level herds where you could get a ton of exp off of them.

I wouldn't try it now because I'd be afraid that even the 1 critter which lived after the first couple blasts would do so much damage as to slaughter me. I'd have to go after much easier stuff that would make it not worth my time.

Even now combat is a lot better again, but not so much as I'd want to waste so many mats practicing this.

Launchers do a bomb AOE, which is slightly useful... sometimes... when you actually want to attack multiple mobs standing nearby and don't care about the adds. Autolaunchers have an utterly useless spray AOE however, which not supprisingly some folks who have never used it, feel is amazingly useful and an important part of the weapon.

Anyways, no skill should be reduced to mass bottom feeding on nearly grey/green con mobs. Bottom feeding is always something that should be avoided, since it puts a strain on low level stuff and takes it away from people that are actually low level. The fact that regular launchers were only good for clearing out herds of low level mobs shows an obvious flaw in their design that needs to be fixed... who in their right mind wants to use hundreds of mats to make a tiny amount of ammo that's good for clearing out unimportant trash mobs... when a mage with a good AOE could do so all day long and do it better... or a melee could just circle them all to death.

On another fun and exciting note since you mentioned that it was "viable" to level launchers with herds of super low level mobs.... I don't recall anyone seriously suggesting that folks go mow down dozens of super low mobs when the original crippling patch 1 was unleashed on the servers.