Impressions of Chapter 1 from ATS: of special interest to those who forage.

[chevelle]

Before this patch detail and ATS was announced I was an extreme supporter of this game. I've been powergaming MMOs since I was 14 (7 years if you want to count eh). I play over 18 hours a day normally (yea I'm a hosue wife tho so dont gripe too much ok?).

These changes wont only affect us, powergamers, but the casual player (which I don't really beleive should exist in MMOs but that's personal opinion) will be borked worse than we are. Yes, we can't craft Q150 stuff with level 200 mages/fighters.. so whats the casual player going to do? There's simply not enough people low enough to benefit from these changes (i'm talking level 50 down and once you're above 50 your borked aswell).

This is a terrible idea Nevrax. When my husband gets his 2 preorders to EQ2 I'll probably jump ship or even pick up WoW... but I really hate loot intensive games. Sadly, they will be more fun than this grind-fest if patch1 stays as is.

[jadeon]

Ok first off I will admit after my first post in this thread I only read through page 4 of the replies with that in mind here's some more of my opinions about this whole thing.

Races only being able to use Civ Specific mats for Civ Specific items is a good thing. It gives adds alot more "content" in my opinion to the skill.

As for the comments about those harvesters who had already passed the 200+ mark, 90% of those folks used/abused the specialization ability's when they would up max exp to attain the skill levels. When the patch fixed those, THAT WAS ENOUGH!

Using monster mats for crafting....hmm how many folks that I sell armor to want a set made of basic/fine armor mats...0. Oh but wait I can use it to train on right. So my hunting party and I go get monster parts from the now upgraded mobs that we can barely kill and then split them amongst the group. Ya I get lots of skilling off those.

Buying/selling mats off the merchants...considering you can only buy and sell mats in stacks of 99, the vendor getting to choose the price for the mats, and how sluggish the buying system already is...ya this is a "great" idea.

People shouldn't be needing gear q.150 and higher yet....only comment on this one is "laugh".

Currently I receive between 10-15 tells for armor sets a day not including my guild, and most of them want armor of a higher quality than I am capable of making atm, and I'm already making up to q.110, q.120 coming when i log in tonight. Each of those heavy sets taking 129 mats if you dont fail.

On a side note if you haven't noticed yet money has no real relevance once your in a guild and your tradeskills are over 80. I'm already charging 300k per q.100 heavy set and alot of you will say thats too high.. what will happen when my mats are 10x harder to come by? " But but wait you said up there money has no real relevance, so why are you charging at all?? " Why not I'll provide the set free if you provide me the mats but how many will do that?

Many of the few posts I read in this thread are merely attempts to stir the pot. I only ask one thing look at this from a realistic point of view about how this will affect the game. Nothing, let me repeat that NOTHING positive comes from this other than the fact that some people might purchase a couple of care plans.

Oh and Pandorae Heaven's Flame was the first reply to the original post in this thread I just didn't have the time last night to go into more detail.

Noxian
Heavy Armor Crafter
Leader of Heaven's Flame

[btamilio]

you know whether you like it or not, or whether you think it is fair or not the point is that powergamers are good for the game........

They are like Lewis and Clark, somebody has to go first......and fast well, so what? They are the guides that we need so the rest of us can follow, no matter how slow or causal we are. Here is a RL example......

That's all good and fine. The problem is that this game makes it really easy for the powergamers to all help each other powergame, while leaving the casual and "middle-road" players in the dust.

In order for the game to work, it must have some balances to prevent the casual players from getting discouraged and leaving the game. If you can't find a group, a crafter, sell your junk and proceed in your casual way, you're leaving. That's that. You'll also spread the word that the game is full of stuck up high level players and "once you get on the mainland, good luck fnding anyone!"

A game with a population of 1000 level 250 players who did it in a month and 200 people in the 50-75 range who will maybe make 250 over the course of the next year is not going to last.

The problem is, all the MMOs cater to the powergamers. If you can find enough of them, then it's okay, because you can alienate casual gamers and make your money off of keeping the PGs something to do. This game really isn't suited to be a powergamer wonderland like DAoC or WoW or EQ -- There's just no point without PvP, or until you can release expansions every 6 mos.

[pandorae]

Heh ... I figured that you guys were in the same boat as the rest of us Noxian ...

Sorry for missing the details though!

[ctusk]

In order for the game to work, it must have some balances to prevent the casual players from getting discouraged and leaving the game. If you can't find a group, a crafter, sell your junk and proceed in your casual way, you're leaving. That's that. You'll also spread the word that the game is full of stuck up high level players and "once you get on the mainland, good luck fnding anyone!"

That is a good point btw. What do you think will happen after this patch now?
Up to now I was gladly making weapons for people that would ask me, charging a reasonable price for them, up to q170. Those days are over, with the new difficulty of obtaining mats I will be lucky if I can fulfill my guilds needs.

Who get's left behind in the dust?
The casual gamer who does not belong to a power guild, who now cannot solo any mobs anymore or harvest when he doesn't find a group.

Who will survive easily?
The powergamers that stick around and just become even more close-knit guilds as before. They will adapt and beat the new challenge. The casual gamer will not.

Something to think about as well.

[seedyman]

The answer (and what is being done with the patch) puller a larger number of lower QL mats.

This shouldn't be a problem.

"I can't level my forage as fast anymore!"
So? the crafters don't need what you are supplying, so give them more of what they need instead of high-level stuff that gets wasted on 150 items.

"It takes too much focus to pull the high level mats!"
Pull lower quality in more quantity with softer means. Fighters can't continnualyl fight (by themselves) max XP, casters can't continually cast max spells vs. max XP mobs, harvesters can't harvest max xp constantly. Funny, it works out.

"I keep dying to explosions/gas!"
Watch the life bars, use mat and location specialization, use high prospect/low harvest stanzas.

Or at least, this is the way I'm seeing it. Maybe I see the glass as half full, but I think these changes are actually a good thing, both for the short term and long term.

Ok I can't speak for the really high lvl harvesters, but when I got my 72nd lvl harvester (who has never seen a mat higher than q50) from live respent on the ATS I could barely ever get a q50 mat from a q50 source.
My current average is q42 or so. The sources mysteriously die when the lifebar is still half full, I get explosions for over half my hit points regularly, this is using the gentle 50 stanza with the two lowest aggressive rate/time, 'cause that's what fits in 24 points of focus.
I cannot do anything useful with the 64 point credit, except use up all my focus, and only occationally get a mat.

[botello]

wow, from what I *heard* from this patch I didn't think it was too bad... then I've been on the ATS today and realized this patch could very well kill this game.

[svayvti]

First, sorry for anyone annoyed by this. This will my last response to svayvti's petty attacks in this thread.

You're petty attacks never end, so whatever.

From my first post in that thread:

what thread? the one I'm referring to?

and in that thread you're talking about

And "Nerfing now prevents new foragers from possibly keeping up"? Are you kidding? It is very much possible to lvl up just fine without mat spec. A lvl 100 forager can supply 99.9% of all crafters.

That is the game Shrike is playing... maybe it is Horizons?

And, again, reading comprehenshion, a skill you sadly lack

Funny, but you're making fun of my post count only seems to prove the point. You live in a fact-less world and the trolling is very annoying.

[svayvti]

Pandorae said it well, and the devs need to wake up and smell the coffee. The forums aren't buzzing for nothing!!!

I wish they could peek in more guild forums too, I full well expect to lose a good portion of my guild from the game if this goes live as is. Pilgrims of Atys are one of the other major guilds terrified of you sending patch 1 live.

I love this game, it has so many great innovations. The concept of a dynamic world is what we really want. But you can't just go around with the nerf axe of doom punishing the main playerbase because of the often repeat whines of just a few players.

Forager testers have been here a long time... when will you start listening to us? I don't want to play EQ2 or WoW, I want to play Ryzom as it is supposed to be. I want to forage in accordance with the vision that sold me on the game long ago. Do you remember what your vision is and was for foraging? for a player based economy?

Please Nevrax, a response to these issues soon.

[kandyfox]

I'm not going to whine or gripe - I only have this to say. This patch is not in favor of the playerbase. By now, people have learned they can actively abandon a game if they do not like it (It's these things called "competition" and "variety"). I don't believe the harvesting adjustments would be at all in Nevrax's interest.
This patch won't deter powerplayers - it'll encourage the few that remain. I hate to make a passive aggressive threat, but it's all I have to offer on the subject.