[exNews] General Thread

[fiach]

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Although Open Source is often equated with amateurism, that doesn't have to be the case, as countless Open Source development projects have shown, that often prove to be solid and useful. I think that Ryzom, if it survives, will have grown stronger from the mistakes of the past. And I want to believe an Open Source Ryzom will have as much of a chance to last and expand than a Sony Ryzom to last and stagnate.
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I'm not entirely sure what "open source" means, which may make the rest of my post redundant if I am totally wrong (will be a first, but I'm comfortable with that )

I assume that it means that private individuals can buy/steal/hack it and set up private servers, if this is the case, then personally I believe it will kill Ryzom stone dead.

1. These operations are amateurish. I have played (well.... tried to play) on private servers Lineage 2 and WoW after playing the originals, there is no comparision in the quality, I could never stick them for more than maybe a week. Bad lag, code not being updated, servers down, no community, code hacked... lots of other stuff that I wont bother with, but you get my point I hope.

2. People will hive off to clique servers, for example all kara go to one, all kami another, or a guilds maybe friendly with the Host and head there, others may not like the Host and go elswhere, either way, A Host may not like a particular guild/player and not allow them access.
It will fracture an already small community into smithereens.

3. The code will be hacked, uber weapons, hacked XP, hacked skills. These will create such an atmosphere of hate and tension, it will no longer resemble Ryzom.

4. Enhanced XP, to attract new players looking for a quick fix, there will be no challenge!

I played a Lineage Private server, I was at level cap in two days, the reason for this enhanced XP, was presented to me as....."Well it makes it easier to get to the castle sieges, which is where all the real fun stuff is".

The castle sieges are great in Lineage 2 (the original), the weeks before and after these were frought with political tension.

On the private server, the castle owners were given their position at the whim of the Host, totally negating any effort by potential power usurpers. Causing incredible fights and player migration.

Anyway, just my 2 cents, hope I'm wrong.

[indiferret]

That was my point exactly; frankly I'd rather someone else have the control, although it can't be just anybody. There's a story to Atys, and we need people who'll devote themselves to it!

[h0lycha0]

I hope this sums it up a little for you Valda (from here)

Free software is about copyleft, not copyright. It is little difficult to grab the concept but, in few words we do not try to become rich. The only thing that we want is to make a good game and see people playing on it. Now if, Microsoft choose to run a copy of the game and to invest on it. Then, it will be a positive thing for the game, even if lot of us hate microsoft. This is why the licence allows it. However, the licence also force them to give to us a copy of the new, brand and shiny version of Ryzom.

Now, I am not worried at all about the possibility of having lot of servers for two reasons. Firstly, what you are talking about is called forking in our language. We know by 30 years of experience that forking is very rare.

The second reason, is that we play to be with the community. Do you want to play on a server where the community does not reside ? I say no, and it is the same for the others. In other word, the things that make you worried about it is also the thing that will keep us together.

I'm sure some people would like all the uber hacked items and xp you mentioned, but most of us wouldn't. For me, and most of us, figuring out recipes or how to use daggers in PvP effectively IS where the "real fun stuff" is. If I can't think it's really no fun for me. If I'm not badly mistaken, in this case, Open Source doesn't mean Free to Play. There would be official servers run with a CSR team, functioning as we are used to.

Even though some Homins tend to be in cliques we all come here to play with others. This community is too small to split up...Seeing the same 5 Homins would be like sitting in Klients all day. I could not and would not be on a "Reaper" server for the simple fact I have very good friends in other guilds.

I would like to see someone with lots of money buy Ryzom and make it all it should be. If I can't have money I'll settle for people who have lots of love. Either way, all I wanna do is go dig

[elthunim]

Open Source.

A bunch of happy amateurs could certainly grab the Ryzom source code from the central repository and fire it up on their machines to have a private Ryzom session. Might work for rings or for a dozen fans hooking up in an intranet over a weekend, not for an MMO: they'll feel lonely.

ryzom.org plans to have shards, because MMOs require proper bandwidth, and bandwidth costs money. If folks want to make a grand 5-player Karavan Alliance on a private server, well and good, my bet again is they'll come back rather quickly to play with everyone.

As for hacks, Security by design (roughly meaning: don't trust the client) works well enough, and Free Software is well-known for its ability to squash bugs and remedy to exploits quickly. ryzom.org does plan to have a central (yes, paid) team of developers to augment and accept code submitted by the volunteers. Open Source doesn't necessarily mean developer chaos.

As for the direction of the game, I think that if the central team keeps full decisional power, keeping the spirit of the game while remaining open-minded to player input and ideas, it's worth a shot to attempt to run an MMO in this fashion. It's a challenge to be sure, but the best guarantee that the game keeps evolving.

Of course, that's all hypothetical. Coming to that point will require quite a bit of work on the source code, choosing the right type of Open Source licensing, and the appropriate marketing and cost planning.

And naturally, projects like Firefox, which was supported by Netscape, and Linux, which didn't have operational costs and was a pure programming product, didn't quite have the same constraints as those of an MMO.

So all in all, Eris has the right mindset. It's not about opposing one model against another for me, and I'll be happy with whatever comes (although I'd likely have an issue if an internet analytics company were to buy the game and analyze our login/playing/PvPing patterns to sell the data to marketing firms...).

But I still do think Ryzom has a higher chance of becoming mainstream and speeding the XP curve with a marketing team worried about making a quick buck; and a better chance of staying unique if developers spend time arguing over whether Trytonians should be able to steal teleporter technology from the Trench of Trials TP.

Your simple digger,
Hekla

[acridiel]

Hekla, my thoughts exactly.

At the beginning I shared many of Fiachs doubts and concerns, but a few minutes reading of their Board and some E-Mails with Xavier have convinced me otherwise.

The WILL have and would love to have everyone who can help them, BUT there WILL also be a central team of people who will decide what goes into the Gamecode and what not on THEIR Servers. So, for example someone develops laser beaming yubos and approaches this team with the Idea, they will probably give him a polite "No, thank you very much."
But if someone comes up with a way to, say wander the canopy, they will gladly implement it

Oc fourse some peeps will open "private" servers and have their way with the code, but who forces you to play on these?

I definetly won´t

And, while the Servers are frozen, I wanted to remind you all with this beautifull french work that Arispolte isn´t the only comunity involved.

Frozen World by Songé.

(Just watched it and it moved me to tears... *sniff*)

CU
Acridiel

[xtarsia]

I don't understand why everyone is concerned about private servers..

i mean..

http://www.google.co.uk/search?hl=en&q= ... ate+server

Still doesn't really stop wow from having umpteen gabillion subs.


Quite simply, if you're of the mind set that would want to play a game where everything is handed to you on a plate, and thus has no meaning or worth at all, then well have fun, and stay on your bugged to death emu servers. (which aren't actually that bugged to death 0o)


Let me explain something about open source, hopefully to clear up the misconceptions that some seem to have:

Open source does not mean everyone and his dog can alter the code willy nilly and make it part of the game.

Open source means that you can SEE the code if you want, and then play about with it on your own, and if you want to, submit any changes you see fit to the developers for them to look over and then they decide if they want to include it or not.

Consider it nothing more than a glorified suggestions > implementation platform, that mearly allows those making the suggestions to a very large chunk of the ground work *if* they were to be implemented!

As for hacking/bugs etc etc open source will most probably work against the hacker/cracker/cheater types, since whilst yes, they can see the code and exactly whats going on, so can an additional X persons that would more than likely wish to clean the code of any and all possible exploits

Contrary to popular belief , im quite sure that the good ppl of the world do indeed greatly outnumber the bad



..i just don't trust the french..

[darega25]

Hekla, my thoughts exactly.

At the beginning I shared many of Fiachs doubts and concerns, but a few minutes reading of their Board and some E-Mails with Xavier have convinced me otherwise.

Welcome to the dark side acri! ;P

And, while the Servers are frozen, I wanted to remind you all with this beautifull french work that Arispolte isn´t the only comunity involved.

Frozen World by Songé.

(Just watched it and it moved me to tears... *sniff*)

yeah, nice video, thx for the link!

[acridiel]

Welcome to the dark side acri! ;P

Meh, Jedi are N00Bs!

[blaah]

Open source does not mean everyone and his dog can alter the code willy nilly and make it part of the game.

as you probably know, MMO game has server and client. 'everyone and his dog' can't alter server code, but client code is possible.
if you think Ryzom had bot problem then, just wait when client goes open. from the 'dig-craft-sell-repeat' virtually in any non pvp (heck even pvp) zone, to small assist 'gadgets' for every day live in atys.
yes they can ban the unassisted 'night' macros, but not the gadget users.
at least with closed client, boting is somewhat complicated.

go-go gadget dig!

[elthunim]

as you probably know, MMO game has server and client. 'everyone and his dog' can't alter server code, but client code is possible.
if you think Ryzom had bot problem then, just wait when client goes open. from the 'dig-craft-sell-repeat' virtually in any non pvp (heck even pvp) zone, to small assist 'gadgets' for every day live in atys.
yes they can ban the unassisted 'night' macros, but not the gadget users.
at least with closed client, boting is somewhat complicated.

go-go gadget dig!

That is a very good point.