ATS: Weight and stamina changes

[xtarsia]

Just a thought, now that the melee users can use less Stam will this make them stronger in PvP? I don't think this will change 1 vs 1 or small little fights but what about long drawn out battles with lots of Homins.
One of the limiting factors of a melee was they used their Stam fast and if a healer stops to give them Stam they need to stop healing their HP. Now that the melee can use less Stam they will need less Stam heals and can do more damage longer with their healer just healing HP.

I think melee has a little edge on nukers now; will this give them a little more?

in combat im primarily a mage, and im not worried about it tbh =)

those mages who know what they're doing should know how to deal with brawny fyrosians with bulky axes anyways =)

1 homin with 9 target bomb + single stam heal can fill a whole team of melee stam wise in a single cast (almost) so not really a problem in mass pvp that they use less, its very minor in that respect imo.

[tigrus]

in combat im primarily a mage, and im not worried about it tbh =)

those mages who know what they're doing should know how to deal with brawny fyrosians with bulky axes anyways =)

1 homin with 9 target bomb + single stam heal can fill a whole team of melee stam wise in a single cast (almost) so not really a problem in mass pvp that they use less, its very minor in that respect imo.

Quick note though, a good caster has a AWESOME advantage on a melee if they know what they are doing... The only problem is that some of the ways of beating a melee when your a mage gets "bad mouthed" if you do it...


Root enchant+ speed up a hill, root enchant again, nuke, keep refilling with sap crystals, enchant, nuke, enchant nuke etc.

Easy mode, but bad mouthed for cliffing.... bah.. CSR's and tactics....

[Marjo]

We patched the ATS today, here's what changed:

• Max resists are back to 275
• Fyros citizenship mission is fixed
• Stamina consumption in bare hand fighting is now displayed right
• Pistol and bowpistol minimum weight is increased from 0.5 to 1.5
• Bowrifle weight is reduced from 4 to 2

[jared96]

The only thing I don't agree with is making pikes lighter than 1handed maces and axes.

I wonder if that's an attempt to negate the damage nerf of 20% introduced at the last weapons patch or just an effort to imitate actual weights of RL weapons.....spear / pike points and shafts being very light in comparison to axe and mace heads / shafts.

[sidusar]

Thankies

• FYI, we've just patched the ATS with some tweaking of dagger, spear and pike's weight.
• Pistol and bowpistol minimum weight is increased from 0.5 to 1.5
• Bowrifle weight is reduced from 4 to 2

Gotcha, updated the new values to the previous posts. And added the ranged weapons too now that their stamina consumption is correct for the weight displayed on them. Good changes there, these weights do seem better.

The stamina consumption displayed on the action is still wrong if there's ammo in the gun though. It seems that it actually takes the average of the weight of the gun and the weight of the ammo in calculating the stamina consumption.

This is also an issue when dual-wielding, that the stamina consumption takes the average of the weight of the two weapons. This makes wielding a dagger along with a sword cost less stamina than just wielding the sword. I'd think the stamina consumption for dual-wielding should take the total weight of both weapons? And if so then the dagger weight might have to be decreased again.

Just a thought, now that the melee users can use less Stam will this make them stronger in PvP? I don't think this will change 1 vs 1 or small little fights but what about long drawn out battles with lots of Homins.

I don't think it'll make much difference in OP battles. Most melee you see there use 2handed swords and axes and the stamina use of those won't change much. It might help bring some other melee weapons into OP battles though.

I'm thinking it'll mostly change 1v1 fights, maybe give a 1h melee some more chance to win against a 2h axe user. And it'll probably make training melee solo a little easier, but I don't see any problem with that.

[jared96]

1H Sword: 17,5
1H Axe: 13,1
1H Mace: 13,1
Pike: 15,8
2H Sword: 13,1
2H Axe: 11,8
2H Mace: 11,8

Is there a typo on there on the damage / stamina ratio ?

2H sword seems to be outta line.

[sidusar]

Nope, 2H sword gets almost the exact same number as 1H axe/mace.

But I expect that before the changes are done the 1H axe and mace will get more damage, putting their ratio somewhere neatly between 1H sword and 2H sword.

And bah, you're right about the pike weight thing. The 1H axes and maces will probably end up doing more damage than pikes, so pikes have to be lighter. Guess I spoke before my turn.

[jared96]

It's just that looking at the 2h weapons:

Pike: 15,8
2H Sword: 13,1
2H Axe: 11,8
2H Mace: 11,8

with a 13:1 ratio, it would seem sword has a significant advantage. The others are 1.4:1 and 1.87:1

The 1H axes and maces will probably end up doing more damage than pikes,

I think that would render the pike to the closet. The 10% damage reduction is on the pike's + side but with a +30 /+40 shield a 1h weapon is way ahead (tho stam consumption assume will go up). Or even with a buckler, .... I am grinding bucklers ATM with just fine mats (oc'ing at 250 at level 205) and haven't experimented with any recipes but with just the easiest available mats, I am beating the 10% parry figure and protections are above 10%.

[calel]

It wouldn't. Unlike other fighters, decent pike users only need to worry about the parry of their opponents. That's the big asset pike and spear have over other weapons.

[sidusar]

with a 13:1 ratio, it would seem sword has a significant advantage. The others are 1.4:1 and 1.87:1

Oh no, misunderstanding there. That comma's not a division, it's a decimal point.

Under your notation, pike is 15.8:1, sword 13.1:1, axe 11.8:1 etc.

It wouldn't. Unlike other fighters, decent pike users only need to worry about the parry of their opponents. That's the big asset pike and spear have over other weapons.

Yep, that's already the only asset pikes have. Those who want defense will go for the 1handed weapons anyway and those who want damage will go for the 2handed axes. 1handed axes doing more damage too can't possibly make things worse for pikes.

Also remember spears will probably do less damage, which will give pikes more use. Lots of people go spears now because they also have the ignore armor stanza, extra defense with the shield, and not even 2% less damage than pikes.