Lets Sink that Dapper

[apziro]

Q250 mats on NPC's:
Yay! This one alone would make a huge difference. All of a sudden, you could dig materials for the sole purpose of creating items to put for sale, and use the revenue to buy your way out of digging grind mats.
If we can only get the crafters lusting for money, that should be enough to ensure that plenty of gear will be available from NPC traders at all times, in turn making dappers that much more important to any non-crafter as well.

Better gear from NPC's:
NO! I find it absolutely essential that crafters are kept in the loop for anyone wanting good gear. The problem is that crafters don't care about raising dappers. They would if they could get Q250 mats from NPC's though.

Novelty stuff for room/GH:
Personally, I wouldn't give a rats ass about this, and frankly, I don't think it would actually *work* as a money sink. Those few people that would care about getting this stuff would still only buy it when they have enough dappers to not care about the amount payed for this. Isn't that the point, you might ask? No - a dapper sink should continuously encourage the player to keep on raising more and more dappers. I doubt more than 5% of the Ryzom population would feel this way about novelties. Cute feature, but ineffective to solve the problem.

Upkeep:
Actually, upkeep already exists on mektoubs, disguised as food. I think this is an excellent way of handling upkeep, as you never actually lose your packer, but only a large part of its functionality. However, the prices need serious adjustment for this to be effective. I personally don't think it would be a problem if it's nearly impossible for anyone below, say, level 150 to keep his mount. It's a luxury, not a necessity, and if we want to fix the dapper, that will mean cutting back on newb luxuries. Besides, you can still HAVE your packers, you just can't travel with them (regularly).
Upkeep on houses/GH's raises a bunch of issues. This is the only mentioned idea that doesn't just encourage making dappers, but forces you to make dappers at a certain rate, and you might very well be screwed if you accidentally run out while buying grind mats. The consequences of losing your flat or GH if you mess up is too great, and it's too likely to happen.

Decrease NPC payment:
No. Price adjustments (in general) will change the scale, it won't fix the issue. Just because I now have half the cash I did before, it doesn't mean that I suddently have something to spend it on.

Increase TP Price:
Not a bad idea. Indeed, TP pricing shouldn't be raised all over, but instead differentiated according to difficulty of area. A newb who treks to every land has earned the right to at least port to their capitals without paying through the nose for it. The Prime Roots are intended to be hard to reach though, and raising 12K isn't hard at all. Raise these prices at least 10-fold, possibly more.

Increase Tool Price:
Basic tools, no. Crafters who put themselves in a tight spot shouldn't be forced to sell back raw mats for hours just to get a tool. HOWEVER... let's say you could spend 10 mill to get an OP Tool that would work for like, 10 crafts total... would you consider buying one of these (if no, turn the price down a little)? Would OP owners feel unjustly robbed of their special luxuries (if yes, turn the price up a notch)?

Increase cost of sap crystals:
Erm, no. If we start relating dappers and sap like this, then let's put a dapper cost on casting spells in general... (this suggestion intended to suck)

Bribes for TP:
No. Not from a lore viewpoint, not from a mechanics viewpoint. Kami ports requiring Kami fame is a rather fundamental game mechanism IMO, and I'd hate to see that one lost. Even though we're trying to make the dapper more useful, we shouldn't allow it to completely replace a well-working mechanism. These bribes would have to be incredibly expensive if it should remain worth the while raising your fame.
IF anything, introduce a new set of portals, run by a neutral trading organization. This should cater some to the neutrals and their eternal issues about not being properly recognized. However, this faction should have far fewer ports than Kami and Kara, and, since they're running ports for profit, and not as a service to their allies, they'd be charging through the nose (seriously, like, 1mill each or something), effectively working somewhat like a bribing mechanism.

[apziro]

The difference between rich and poor doesn't seems atm to play ingame a big role and that is the way it should stay.

I disagree. Poor people should have access to the basics, rich people should have access to luxuries. Your notion here sounds a whole lot like communism to me.

No buy an item/service , craft it/exchange it/loot it/earn it as reward this is the "richer experience" way of gameplay.

To many people, the richest experience is where you hunt for loot, sell the loot, and buy what you need to keep you hunting. I enjoy crafting and digging, but I can appreciate that others might not feel the same way. There's not a lot of loot in this game that's interesting by itself. You can't exchange without having something to exchange with. Killing for loot, selling it for dappers, and buying your new sword is indeed very much an honorable way of earning an item.

Have already a RL job don't need to worry about how much dapper i own.

If you don't worry about what equipment you're wearing, there still won't be any reason to worry about your dappers. If you DO worry about your equipment, how is that fundamentally different from worrying about dappers? RL occupation and economy has nothing to do with Ryzom.

[mugendo]

Voted for Upkeep of GH and Apartments. The apartment and GH are both storage areas that are optional purchases for the player.

'Essential' purchases such as TP tickets should remain cheap enough for the new players, But I do like the Idea of more expensive tickets to the higher level areas.

Allowing the NPC to sell high quality items that players can dig/craft themselves is never a good idea.

[pavmelas]

I disagree. Poor people should have access to the basics, rich people should have access to luxuries. Your notion here sounds a whole lot like communism to me.

dunno what you mean, politics was not intended by me. The difference is you like to see people differ in poor and rich and me at other game aspects then their pockets.
The original vision of Nevrax on Atys seems to support this, at least the implemented game mechanics looks that way. In other games for example EVE it is more like you said. Exactly thats why i started to play Ryzom and i leave the day i sense it gets the way down to an eco game.

[blaah]

Having said that, maintainance costs for GH,Apt and packers is good, and once the funds run out, the contents is sold off.

we already have that (tho free) with merchants

.. but for room/guild hall... currently ingame room/gh should stay the same, maintenance should be for rented space (maybe for personal use (room) 10k bulk and for guilds (guild hall) unlimited bulk/items). fee should be calculated from used bulk (timeperiod 1 ingame hour maybe if server can handle it ... and balance should go negative (up to -100mil or so) to prevent another free storage. (if it's negative, can't put in/take out anything).
"bulk fee" should be few dappers only... for extra 10k bulk, 150k per 24h RL should be reasonable.

i know who should rent out space...... tribes ofcourse

There is way too much hoarding in the game, if the hoardng has a maintainance cost then perhaps there will be more dynamism with material use.

true, but thats the way life is in Atys. if you see boss/mob, you better kill it and get the loot because if you may need it, you cant do _anything_ to get the mats. if it would be possible to _initiate_ boss/named spawns, then there would be less hoarding i think (go out, work for it, get it to spawn, get mats, use it or sell to highest bidder as you know you can get more if you need)

[ffxjosh]

dunno what you mean, politics was not intended by me. The difference is you like to see people differ in poor and rich and me at other game aspects then their pockets.
The original vision of Nevrax on Atys seems to support this, at least the implemented game mechanics looks that way. In other games for example EVE it is more like you said. Exactly thats why i started to play Ryzom and i leave the day i sense it gets the way down to an eco game.

Do you belive that people who have been playing a long time should not have better items / weapons / armour?

The plan fact is, the experienced like to have somthing to show for it and having a supreme axe (or whatever) does cost, but becuase of the length of time thye have been playing they are able to afford it, this means economics. It's in EVERY mmorpg i have seen. i would say that Ryzom is more eco based than alot of games.

Maybe i just dont understand your point.

[apziro]

The difference is you like to see people differ in poor and rich and me at other game aspects then their pockets.

This is pretty far from the truth. The advantage of a healthy economy is a tool that players can use to trade their way to goods they need, without both parties necessarily having a specific item that the other requires. I would rather have the option of doing what I enjoy doing, and meanwhile being able to earn SOMETHING that EVERYONE is interested in. As it is now, you do NOT have access to ANYTHING others will be willing to trade with if you do not dig or craft.
The difference between rich and poor is already in the game, but you need to make a relatively subjective assessment of the quality of a persons gear to express their wealth.
If you consider the sword wielded to be a different aspect than pocket size, I can only ask that you try and look at the bigger picture, cause it's really the same thing.
If you're instead referring to how skilled the player is, I can assure you, for the most part that WILL be fairly reflected by their wealth. Crappy players will (in the worst case scenario) not be able to solo, won't get invited to groups, will continously blow themselves up when digging, and won't grasp how to craft a decent amplifier. As such, no (or very little) income. Decent players will have every option of making a decent cash performing at least one of these tasks adequately. Good players will have good options of excelling everywhere. It's much better to give everyone the choice of which way to go than to force everyone to dig mats.

I've played a great deal of MMO's, and one thing I've learned is that people who continue to find themselves unable to raise a buck are the same people you won't trust with your life, cause frankly, they just ain't good enough at the game. They are not bad because they are poor. They are poor because they are bad.

[pavmelas]

Do you belive that people who have been playing a long time should not have better items / weapons / armour?

The plan fact is, the experienced like to have somthing to show for it and having a supreme axe (or whatever) does cost, but becuase of the length of time thye have been playing they are able to afford it, this means economics. It's in EVERY mmorpg i have seen. i would say that Ryzom is more eco based than alot of games.

Maybe i just dont understand your point.

meant DAPPER driven eco.
ok a example : a guildie of me 1 year ingame owns a supreme axe and 250k dappers another guildie 2,5 years ingame owns a supreme axe and 250 milions of dappers and a third guildie 2 months ingame owns a supreme axe and some dappers well and the newbie guildie fresh from island owns a lvl 50 supreme axe and is able to buy 1 tp (ok last one doens't exactly exist everyone get starting dappers).
The dappers seems don't made any difference to owning good items.

[ffxjosh]

meant DAPPER driven eco.
ok a example : a guildie of me 1 year ingame owns a supreme axe and 250k dappers another guildie 2,5 years ingame owns a supreme axe and 250 milions of dappers and a third guildie 2 months ingame owns a supreme axe and some dappers well and the newbie guildie fresh from island owns a lvl 50 supreme axe and is able to buy 1 tp .
The dappers seems don't made any difference to owning good items.

My quesiton would be - How did they pay for those axes ?

[apziro]

No buy an item/service , craft it/exchange it/loot it/earn it as reward this is the "richer experience" way of gameplay.

[...] and the newbie guildie fresh from island owns a lvl 50 supreme axe [...] The dappers seems don't made any difference to owning good items.

No, dappers don't make a difference when you get freebies from your guild. It's almost a paradox that this argument is raised by the same person highlighting the richer experience as being earning something on your own.

A level 50 newb can't survive in PR, so he can't come across sup. mats on his own. As it is now, his only means of getting a supreme axe at that level is as a gift. A valuable currency would have allowed him to spend his entire stay on Silan saving up money for that axe, and actually earning it on his own. I used to insist on paying for stuff when I was a newb, but it quickly turned out to be a waste of breath, since noone cares.