yea i defenintly think ryzom.org is a good thing to have as an alternative, but I gotta agree I don't fully trust thier buisness an server running plans... why get rid of jolt who have done so much for the game? why distance so many old players? IMHO Nevrax has done a great! job listening to players, they've just been slow due to extranious issues. And Jolt has supported this open listening policy with the game as far as i see. Ryzom.org has yet to show this level of dedication to current players...
but i support them still, just half heartedly..
Xavier's still at it :)
Re: Xavier's still at it :)
Re: Xavier's still at it :)
Why ?
First thing jolt is expensive. Make ryzom run on our own srevers would be much cheaper.
Second not everyon agree that jolt had done so much for ryzom, and they definitly don't agree when you say that nevrax has listened to players.
Nevrax is at bankrupsy, it means one thing : whoever buy ryzom, there will be changes. The one of the goals of the ryzom.org project is to make ryzom sustainable.
We tink that to make this true we need to find the best service for the lower price, and to do this we think that we have to put jolt out of the equation.
All isn't right in the current situation, changes are needed.
Luinil
First thing jolt is expensive. Make ryzom run on our own srevers would be much cheaper.
Second not everyon agree that jolt had done so much for ryzom, and they definitly don't agree when you say that nevrax has listened to players.
Nevrax is at bankrupsy, it means one thing : whoever buy ryzom, there will be changes. The one of the goals of the ryzom.org project is to make ryzom sustainable.
We tink that to make this true we need to find the best service for the lower price, and to do this we think that we have to put jolt out of the equation.
All isn't right in the current situation, changes are needed.
Luinil
Last edited by tryzovia on Mon Dec 04, 2006 2:52 am, edited 1 time in total.
Re: Xavier's still at it :)
I don't think you really have an idea of how much servers cost then... Its all fine and dandy to say "in the long term, this is cheaper", but when you're a project that doesn't really have any money behind it, its a different matter.tryzovia wrote:Why ?
First thing jolt is expensive. Make ryzom run on our own srevers would be much cheaper.
Cheaper in the long term, yes. Really high initial cost? you betcha. Maintenance costs? yep....
and then of course if you do it cheaply... laggy and unresponsive servers...
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Re: Xavier's still at it :)
There is no price a gamer can put on good, consistant customer service. Jolt isn't perfect but they are damned good and predictable...tryzovia wrote:Why ?
First thing jolt is expensive. Make ryzom run on our own srevers would be much cheaper.
Short of Takashi rising up for folks on Windy, I doubt all of this propoganda will work for you... I expect more things consistant with Xavier's action in the past and want no part of it. You may somehow con folks into this project, but the end result will be the "open source" folks getting a new toy and the rest of us looking for a new game.
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Re: Xavier's still at it :)
If you think Jolt had any part of Nevrax's demise, the Org guys got another thing coming. Had the CS dept of Jolt been on par with the other major MMO games, Nevrax would have been bankrupt over 1 yr ago. Don't believe me? Ask the SWG, WoW, RF Online, EQ's, Silkroad (fill in any Major MMO here) refugees.
After 3 yrs of SoR, a lack of advertising, content, bugfixes, expansions were the reason no one subbed up. A rich, living planet that is buggy and stagnant dying due to lack of subs.
After 3 yrs of SoR, a lack of advertising, content, bugfixes, expansions were the reason no one subbed up. A rich, living planet that is buggy and stagnant dying due to lack of subs.
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Re: Xavier's still at it :)
well i would not say ryzom is buggy praha. the ring is somewhat buggy but its brand new. mainland is practically free of bugs. (other than kitins..) nevrax made some mistakes for sure but the were only able to do so much with what they had... they were not wealthy and rich.A rich, living planet that is buggy and stagnant dying due to lack of subs.
Re: Xavier's still at it :)
That's not really the SoR's major problem. Sure, the lack of subscribers and lack of advertising, but the real problem is behind it is:praha wrote:After 3 yrs of SoR, a lack of advertising, content, bugfixes, expansions were the reason no one subbed up. A rich, living planet that is buggy and stagnant dying due to lack of subs.
It's the attitude of the develpment of this game. Many other games does add new content to game as did Nevrax, but the different is, the way how they do it. Nevrax did not just add new content, but they change the fundametal of the games many times when they did so. Basicly they take away from players something what they allready have or try to force them to change they playing styles.
People don't like changes, they don't like when someting is take away, nor they don't like to be forced to do something they don't like. So everytime these SoR's big adds did hits the game, they did lose a lot of players. All who where left in the game and playing just say we get new ones. Yes, thats true, but losing players isn't ever good for the RL money situations. Nevrax should have learn to add content so that it's really word ADD, not change. This would give players possibilities, not lose or force they current situation to change something else.
That's the real problem behind the game.
Re: Xavier's still at it :)
tryzovia wrote:Why ?
First thing jolt is expensive. Make ryzom run on our own srevers would be much cheaper.
Second not everyon agree that jolt had done so much for ryzom, and they definitly don't agree when you say that nevrax has listened to players.
Nevrax is at bankrupsy, it means one thing : whoever buy ryzom, there will be changes. The one of the goals of the ryzom.org project is to make ryzom sustainable.
We tink that to make this true we need to find the best service for the lower price, and to do this we think that we have to put jolt out of the equation.
All isn't right in the current situation, changes are needed.
Luinil
Indeed your own servers may be cheaper than Jolt but are they reliable? Will there be massive downtimes? What about support staff and people to troubleshoot your problems in the game?
You can argue Jolt's expensive and open source is better cause more players would know the code and could troubleshoot things all you want but I really don't see open source future for Ryzom. What I do see are a few people getting what they want (the code and other assets) while the people that liked Ryzom for it's Jolt support staff and Nevrax's plans and story leave.
Yes, we can expect large changes if another company takes over Ryzom but a company with capital can do so much more than an open source group with promises.
Also I don't trust Xavier and I don't even know him. Seems to be riding in on a white horse appearing as the Savior of Ryzom.
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Re: Xavier's still at it :)
I agree. Off all the MMOs I've played Ryzom has the best customer service and I think anyone that says customer service doesn't matter is underestimating the influence that Jolt has on the player community. They keep us well behaved towards each other as well as help with technical problems after all.vguerin wrote:There is no price a gamer can put on good, consistant customer service. Jolt isn't perfect but they are damned good and predictable...
Re: Xavier's still at it :)
I'll play a bit the Devil's avocate here, but I have lots of doubts. While the nerd in me welcomes an open source game -- just for the sake of having access to the code, etc. - lots of questions remain unanswered:
* A couple of days ago, it was stated in a new plan that the original "non-profit" organization was not credible enough, considering french laws. It is then required to create a "for profit" organization to be credible enough. And a couple of companies may invest a bit more. They need more money and they need investors. Uhm, this raised some concerns. They did not know this before? "we are forced into it by the judiciary system requires. A non profit organization, in the current state, isn't credible enough to be considered as an autonomous partner. " Credibility is a concern, regardless of the non profit organization raised funds?.
* "The opening of the code, especially, and the self-governance of the community, will be respected in the non-profit organization". And what happens to the other 2 involved organizations? what is their role? I guess they are investing money hoping that the official shard will be the logical continuation and apply a more classical business model. I can't help (maliciously, maybe?, sorry then) thinking that, as things have evolved, that these last coming "2 investors" are somehow opportunistic parties willing to operate the game for profit at a very low cost and at little risk, investing if the project succeeds a few tens of thousands of Euros out of the total raised.
* Who are this investors? What plans do they have? For me invest = expected benefits. Are there companies with a hidden agenda? Are they planning to buy Nevrax assets at a fraction of the cost? If there is benefit from buying the assets, and operating the servers, where would that money go? Why would a sarcastic person state that "they are asking the community to pay to buy a game that seems profitable if you don't consider the cumulated stated debts, opening the code being the requirement?
* While one could think that the project has a noble, honest and valid goal, and the Social contract states a lot about the code management, little is said about the business model of operating the game. I could not help (probably I am wrong) that there may be more complex interests looking for a bargain, buying a ready to operate game for the fraction of the cost, using community raised money and opening the code as a requirement, relying on the fact that the main business model will be mainly unchallenged and that it may soon translate into benefits without the huge debts. In other words, "buy a MMRPG for a bargain, open it to please players, with the GPLed cool factor and then profit." It's the last part that worries me. Of course, everybody is invited to get the code and operate their own service commercially at their own risk and profit. But maybe it's the way things are stated, and seemingly using part of players money as the capital to create the "for profit" operating company. Something more in the lines "once the code is open -- and you know the advantages of it -- we will operate it in a classical for-profit business" and insist less of the "freedom, possibility to influence it" that has plagged the saga since the beginning.
Finally.. had it been the other way, a company that put money on the table, stated up front that they consider Ryzom a viable business service, and that they are, equally, opening the code as originally planned, and leaving the players decide what to do and how to do, *that* would be different.
Just food for thoughts.
* A couple of days ago, it was stated in a new plan that the original "non-profit" organization was not credible enough, considering french laws. It is then required to create a "for profit" organization to be credible enough. And a couple of companies may invest a bit more. They need more money and they need investors. Uhm, this raised some concerns. They did not know this before? "we are forced into it by the judiciary system requires. A non profit organization, in the current state, isn't credible enough to be considered as an autonomous partner. " Credibility is a concern, regardless of the non profit organization raised funds?.
* "The opening of the code, especially, and the self-governance of the community, will be respected in the non-profit organization". And what happens to the other 2 involved organizations? what is their role? I guess they are investing money hoping that the official shard will be the logical continuation and apply a more classical business model. I can't help (maliciously, maybe?, sorry then) thinking that, as things have evolved, that these last coming "2 investors" are somehow opportunistic parties willing to operate the game for profit at a very low cost and at little risk, investing if the project succeeds a few tens of thousands of Euros out of the total raised.
* Who are this investors? What plans do they have? For me invest = expected benefits. Are there companies with a hidden agenda? Are they planning to buy Nevrax assets at a fraction of the cost? If there is benefit from buying the assets, and operating the servers, where would that money go? Why would a sarcastic person state that "they are asking the community to pay to buy a game that seems profitable if you don't consider the cumulated stated debts, opening the code being the requirement?
* While one could think that the project has a noble, honest and valid goal, and the Social contract states a lot about the code management, little is said about the business model of operating the game. I could not help (probably I am wrong) that there may be more complex interests looking for a bargain, buying a ready to operate game for the fraction of the cost, using community raised money and opening the code as a requirement, relying on the fact that the main business model will be mainly unchallenged and that it may soon translate into benefits without the huge debts. In other words, "buy a MMRPG for a bargain, open it to please players, with the GPLed cool factor and then profit." It's the last part that worries me. Of course, everybody is invited to get the code and operate their own service commercially at their own risk and profit. But maybe it's the way things are stated, and seemingly using part of players money as the capital to create the "for profit" operating company. Something more in the lines "once the code is open -- and you know the advantages of it -- we will operate it in a classical for-profit business" and insist less of the "freedom, possibility to influence it" that has plagged the saga since the beginning.
Finally.. had it been the other way, a company that put money on the table, stated up front that they consider Ryzom a viable business service, and that they are, equally, opening the code as originally planned, and leaving the players decide what to do and how to do, *that* would be different.
Just food for thoughts.
Last edited by iphdrunk on Mon Dec 04, 2006 8:34 am, edited 1 time in total.
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