Why the desire for clothing?

[rothimar]

Must I take up some sort of legalese?

Since you didn't post a warning that reading your reply could cause coffee to expell from the reader's nostrils, I am going to have to sue you.

Right after I clean up my monitor...

[rushin]

more choice is almost always good and i would love to see many many more crafting plans, pointy hats and ear warmers and big yubo slippers and and and

something they could do with much less effort is open up other races cosmetic merchants to those with 50 civ fame. It would need a bit of cleaning up as there were some texture issues when we could do this before, but not too much trouble i'd imagine...

[beeryusa]

The purpose of this thread was to understand why people want clothing when, as far as I'm concerned, there is no problem at hand

There doesn't have to be a 'problem' for people to want more and better stuff. I have a great life IRL, I live and work at home and look after my 3 year-old daughter. But that doesn't mean I'll never desire anything more. Heck, just this week I've desired a laser printer, a new computer, some books and a bunch of intelligent monkey slaves to clean and cook for me. None of that means that what I have is somehow fraught with problems, or that I'm going around in a depressed funk just because I can't get those things this week (well except for the monkey slaves - that one really bothers me).

Your premise is flawed. You seem to think that our desire for more implies a lack of something in the game. It doesn't. It is possible to love a game yet desire more from it. In fact that's the whole premise behind online pay-per-month games. If we didn't desire change and improvement we wouldn't need to pay developers a monthly fee to give it to us. We could just have a single player game like Elder Scrolls: Oblivion where the content never changes.

[marct]

I have always wanted to go through every bit of the pieces of armor and/or weapons and define what part of the itme which part represents. If this was done one could then go through and make LQ, MQ, and HQ versions of a skin for each part and the item would actually appear to be made of what is in it.

Still the same shape, size, etc. Just change the textures. Obviously Gubani skin on skirt would be a totally different look than Arma skin. Add to that the colors or each indiividual component in the pattern, and I think you start to get where I am going.

So the Gubani skin in a set of amps could be a certain color, the shaft (maybe a Gingo bone primarily) would have another color , and the eyes/plant focus item/amber would contribute to other parts of the look and be a third color based on what was put into it.


It could be pretty cool. I bet if we did a community project to rip the textures apart, determine which materials affect which part of the end product,and then did a texture for each and every material in each of it's potential uses, etc. We could possibly get Nevrax to implement such a system.

Just dreaming over here, sorry.

[johntf]

There doesn't have to be a 'problem' for people to want more and better stuff. I have a great life IRL, I live and work at home and look after my 3 year-old daughter. But that doesn't mean I'll never desire anything more. Heck, just this week I've desired a laser printer, a new computer, some books and a bunch of intelligent monkey slaves to clean and cook for me. None of that means that what I have is somehow fraught with problems, or that I'm going around in a depressed funk just because I can't get those things this week (well except for the monkey slaves - that one really bothers me).

Your premise is flawed. You seem to think that our desire for more implies a lack of something in the game. It doesn't. It is possible to love a game yet desire more from it. In fact that's the whole premise behind online pay-per-month games. If we didn't desire change and improvement we wouldn't need to pay developers a monthly fee to give it to us. We could just have a single player game like Elder Scrolls: Oblivion where the content never changes.

Actually if you still desire more that technically means that there is something missing, only when things are "perfect" from a persons perspective then do they cease to wish anything more. Quite logically if you desire more than "you" feel there is something missing or you would not desire it.

Simply stating you want them is not an answer to her question, nor was her question implying there's is a negative reason for people to want more clothes simply offering people a change to discuss to different reasons they want them so to better understand them.

Oh and actually the content changes all the time in single player games (if such a thing truly exists anymore) oblivion being a prime example player and developer patches and add ons are widely available for it.

Oh and the premise behind paying a mothly fee is not as such the need for a game that has change given to it by its developers but to live and exist in a world where what the players do makes a change and difference to other living people, the monthly fee is there to keep up server maintanence and well a whole host of business related reasons.

[beeryusa]

Actually if you still desire more that technically means that there is something missing, only when things are "perfect" from a persons perspective then do they cease to wish anything more. Quite logically if you desire more than "you" feel there is something missing or you would not desire it.

Okay, so if I buy a top of the line car but I desire the car to have the ability to fly and an auto-drive feature so that I don't have to drive it, does that mean that the car is imperfect? No, thus your premise is flawed. Perfection doesn't exist when it comes to desire. If we gauged everything by desire alone, we'd think everything was imperfect.

Simply stating you want them is not an answer to her question...

I have answered the question elsewhere. My biggest issue is that I feel like a complete pillock when my character is wandering around in a blizzard in little more than the bikini which is my caster's most efficient armour. If we have to put a negative spin on things, then that's where I'd place it - a ROLE-PLAYING game is less than perfect when it forces characters to dress for cold weather in ways that only a lunatic would think appropriate.

...nor was her question implying there's is a negative reason for people to want more clothes simply offering people a change to discuss to different reasons they want them so to better understand them.

I remind you, she said:

"...<EXPLANATION OF INTENT> The purpose of this thread was to understand why people want clothing when, as far as I'm concerned, there is no problem at hand..."

Call me crazy, but when a person says that there must be a problem if people want more, she's saying that she thinks that there's a negative reason for people wanting more. Her question is based on the false premise that the game must be flawed for anyone to want more, so it can't be answered properly - it's like saying "Only a complete idiot would want to change a perfect game, so why do you want change?". The question infers, a priori, a negative value to any response that is made. It's an unfair question because it demonizes those who desire more.

Let me precisely restate my position: I don't think there's anything 'wrong' with the game, but like anything else, it could be improved.

Oh and actually the content changes all the time in single player games (if such a thing truly exists anymore) oblivion being a prime example player and developer patches and add ons are widely available for it.

Patches are solutions made shortly after a game's release, fixing existing problems with a game and maybe attempting to insert intended features that didn't make it into the released game. They are not intended to be part of an ongoing strategy of change. Mods are a different matter, and have nothing to do with a developer's intent, except that when a developer leaves a game open to mods he is PASSIVELY permitting changes made by the community. When it comes to MMOGs the developers often actively canvass the community for desired changes. That means that they intend to deliver on player wishes and that ACTIVE ongoing change made by the developers is part of the gameplan. That's a completely different procedure than that of a single player game.

Oh and the premise behind paying a mothly fee is not as such the need for a game that has change given to it by its developers but to live and exist in a world where what the players do makes a change and difference to other living people, the monthly fee is there to keep up server maintanence and well a whole host of business related reasons.

I don't see the difference between what you're saying here and what I said. Surely it's good business to be responsive to your player community, and if the community wants change you have developers on hand to achieve the community's desires. The thing that drives the developer's long-term ability to actively change a game post-release is subscriptions.

[xenofur]

Simple question, simple answer: LESS NAKED CRAFTERS!

[rothimar]

There is no question that many players want more clothing and armor choices, but such new content should come second to finishing/fixing existing features, finishing R2, and whatever other major content projects are currently in development.

I would love to have a more diverse selection in wearables... but I would much rather have a fully operational battle station.

[beeryusa]

There is no question that many players want more clothing and armor choices, but such new content should come second to finishing/fixing existing features, finishing R2, and whatever other major content projects are currently in development.

Well the big problem is that such features never get finished, or there's always some tweak to the game mechanics that some players think is more important than features that add depth. Many players seem to think that depth is less important than mechanics, but the reality is that depth is the overwhelming reason we play these games. Game mechanics, while important, are only tools by which players immerse themselves in the game world. They are not 'the reason' to play the game. A game can have perfect mechanics, but if it's lacking in terms of depth it's an empty experience.

Content that adds depth is as important as mechanics. To assume mechanics are more important is a mistake. If a developer ignores game mechanics we can't play the game, but if a developer ignores depth there's no reason to play the game in the first place. These two aspects of a game have to be approached as equally important. Neither can be 'put off until later'.

[johntf]

Okay, so if I buy a top of the line car but I desire the car to have the ability to fly and an auto-drive feature so that I don't have to drive it, does that mean that the car is imperfect? No, thus your premise is flawed. Perfection doesn't exist when it comes to desire. If we gauged everything by desire alone, we'd think everything was imperfect.

Yes if the car lacks a feature you desire then for you the car is imperfect as you have found something that it lacks, I don't mean to be rude but your missing the point here, in clear and plain english if something is missing something in your eyes then it is imperfect it is at fault. Something can do the job it is meant to do very very well and still be imperfect, infact nothing is perfect. Oh and just because a car's "top of the line" certianly doesn't again mean its perfect or the very first "top of the line" car would have solved everyones problems and we would need no more new cars.

I have answered the question elsewhere. My biggest issue is that I feel like a complete pillock when my character is wandering around in a blizzard in little more than the bikini which is my caster's most efficient armour. If we have to put a negative spin on things, then that's where I'd place it - a ROLE-PLAYING game is less than perfect when it forces characters to dress for cold weather in ways that only a lunatic would think appropriate.

You do realise that since the game is set in a fantasy world where the rules of phsyics from our world do not apply, a world completely alient to your own and full of magic and science, and that the races that live there are homins not humans. how cold affects them what properties they have are not set in stone as the same as our world. However if you wish to dress in a more conversative manner out of role play modesty then yes a person should have more clothes available to them, I am all in favour of more clothes and yes I consider ryzom to be an inperfect game. It's still the first choice for me, but by no means perfect.

I remind you, she said:

"...<EXPLANATION OF INTENT> The purpose of this thread was to understand why people want clothing when, as far as I'm concerned, there is no problem at hand..."

Call me crazy, but when a person says that there must be a problem if people want more, she's saying that she thinks that there's a negative reason for people wanting more. Her question is based on the false premise that the game must be flawed for anyone to want more, so it can't be answered properly - it's like saying "Only a complete idiot would want to change a perfect game, so why do you want change?". The question infers, a priori, a negative value to any response that is made. It's an unfair question because it demonizes those who desire more.

Let me precisely restate my position: I don't think there's anything 'wrong' with the game, but like anything else, it could be improved.

OKay we are going in circles now no one ever suggest until I am now that your a complete idiot. And no one is saying ryzom is perfect you are simply being asked your opinion on why you want it changed, and yes it is does count as something negative about the game when it lacks something, and a person is not a bad person for pointing that out or raising that issue to be amongsy the many other things that need addressing here.

Once again yes ryzom is flawed, and yes suggesting it lacks something means it is imperfect

im‧per‧fect  /ɪmˈpɜrfɪkt/ Pronunciation Key - Show Spelled Pronunciation[im-pur-fikt] Pronunciation Key - Show IPA Pronunciation

–adjective 1. of, pertaining to, or characterized by defects or weaknesses: imperfect vision.
2. not perfect; lacking completeness: imperfect knowledge.


see there lacking completeless is a defenition of imprefect, if something needs something adding to it then it is imperfect, frankly I don't see why I'm going over the issue again or even bothering to explain to you that ryzom isnt perfect and there's nothing wrong with suggesting that it isnt. Or the fact that when something leaves you wanting more it CLEARLY ISNT PERFECT BY THE VERY DEFENITION AND MEANING OF THE WORD.

Patches are solutions made shortly after a game's release, fixing existing problems with a game and maybe attempting to insert intended features that didn't make it into the released game. They are not intended to be part of an ongoing strategy of change. Mods are a different matter, and have nothing to do with a developer's intent, except that when a developer leaves a game open to mods he is PASSIVELY permitting changes made by the community. When it comes to MMOGs the developers often actively canvass the community for desired changes. That means that they intend to deliver on player wishes and that ACTIVE ongoing change made by the developers is part of the gameplan. That's a completely different procedure than that of a single player game.

Patches originally many many years ago existed for that eason and that reason alone, these days patches are not exclusive to fixing bugs. Patches can be found as I said with brand new player and developer content, this is why games for years have released developer kits with them not as they didn't have time to put something in and yes it exists to promote an ongoing strategy of change designed to increase the lifespan of a game.

I don't see the difference between what you're saying here and what I said. Surely it's good business to be responsive to your player community, and if the community wants change you have developers on hand to achieve the community's desires. The thing that drives the developer's long-term ability to actively change a game post-release is subscriptions.

Err.... well its to do with the fact you saying paying a monthly fee gives you more right than say paying a fixed fee to patches and changes etc, its half right but it's not completely right and I really can't be bothred explaining the difference. And yes I agree changes should be made, I just found your post lacking consistant logic and also suggesting jelathnia was insulting people who want change or saying they where bad for wanting change. Both of which she is certainly not she is simply giving the debate an opening from which we and the people behind the game can see how important it is to the community.