Reporting to BBB If transaction is nor reembersed.

[j090n]

My account was activated beggining of July. I was under the impression there was a free month. However I was charged $14.95 for the month of July.
My Account was deactivated in beggining of August, However I show a recent charge to Saga Of Ryzom in my checking account transactions for $14.95.

#1 what happened to the free month?
#2 Even if there was no free month I shouldn't have been charged twice as I have not had an acctive account for two full months.
#3 If I am not reembersed I will contact my bank and file a claim.
#4 If I have to follow through with #3 I will also take the time to contact the better business bureau and be force to report both companies (Nevrax and Bibit)

Thanks for your time. I look forward to being reembersed for this faulty charge.

[Zerlin]

Details like this really should be sent to billing-ee@ryzom.com

The first charge is for converting to a paying account.
30 days later the subscription start would be the second charge.

If you read closely on the Registration page it says nothing about subscription price: "To have access to the mainland, you have to convert your trial account into a paying account. You can then continue playing The Saga of Ryzom for only $ 14.95 (£ 8.49 or € 12.90), and your account will be credited with 1 extra month."

The subscription pricing is found here.

By the way, the Better Business Bureau does not have any jurisdiction over non US companies. For that matter it has no legal jurisdiction over American companies.

[soulsnatcher]

OK then let's deal with the facts and threats as they happened. Zerlin has already spoken of the charges issue. After all your threats of hacking and your probing of the network (which are being reported to the appropriate authorities in the USA now) plus some inappropriate behaviour in game you were suspended for a short period of time. You also unsubscribed your account in protest which you are of course free to do. You unsubscribed your account AFTER the payment transaction went through. Plain and simple facts. So you go ahead and report that and we'll be happy to show the facts of the matter. Quite why you decided to stop dealing with this directly with us is unknown to me but if you prefer to do it here, or indeed on the mmorpg forums, then this is where it shall be done.

As our players know, we take the smooth running of their accounts very seriously and do our utmost to sort out any issues as fast as possible. All they have to do is contact us. Making false claims like this really doesn't achieve anything, but if this is the way you want to do this then so be it.

Regards
Souls

[j090n]

OK then let's deal with the facts and threats as they happened. Zerlin has already spoken of the charges issue. After all your threats of hacking and your probing of the network (which are being reported to the appropriate authorities in the USA now) plus some inappropriate behaviour in game you were suspended for a short period of time. You also unsubscribed your account in protest which you are of course free to do. You unsubscribed your account AFTER the payment transaction went through. Plain and simple facts. So you go ahead and report that and we'll be happy to show the facts of the matter. Quite why you decided to stop dealing with this directly with us is unknown to me but if you prefer to do it here, or indeed on the mmorpg forums, then this is where it shall be done.

As our players know, we take the smooth running of their accounts very seriously and do our utmost to sort out any issues as fast as possible. All they have to do is contact us. Making false claims like this really doesn't achieve anything, but if this is the way you want to do this then so be it.

Regards
Souls

Alright, I understand now that I was charged $14.95 to acctivate my account.
However there are some things left unanswered.

Lets go over some facts here..
And flush out the Free month issue.
Here is a copy of what is stated in the Registration details..

"To have access to the mainland, you have to convert your trial account into a paying account. You can then continue playing The Saga of Ryzom for only $ 14.95 ( 8.49 or 12.90), and your account will be credited with 1 extra month. In case you unsubscribe, your account - character(s), stats, and community - will be kept for at least 90 days so that you can continue to play later."

How tricky is that! It should say "Your account will be activated for $14.95"
=)

Here is a copy of my account details.
Tell me at what point I was granted a free month??

Event Id Date Description
206558 July 5 2006 - July 12 2006 Free Trial: Ruins of Silan
210879 July 12 2006 Online purchase of Ryzom
210881 July 12 2006 - August 12 2006 Online purchase of Ryzom
225522 August 12 2006 - September 12 2006 Recurring subscription - 1 month
226856 August 15 2006 - August 18 2006 Suspended

(NOTE: I only purchased this once, I did not make a mistake, I did not push any buttons twice. I am unclear on Event ID's 210879 and 210881. However below you will see that 207095 Failed. Hence this is not the reason why I was charged three times, when I first noticed this I did nothing about it, I did not attempt to repurchase time. And is now null and void if you plan on using that for leverage. This was a mistake on your end. Not mine.)

Transactions
Transaction Id Date Description Event Id Price P. Status
207095 July 12 2006 Online purchase of Ryzom 210879 USD 14.95 bbt FAILED
207096 July 12 2006 Online purchase of Ryzom 210881 USD 14.95 bbt CAPTURED
211857 August 12 2006 Recurring subscription - 1 month 225522 USD 14.95 bbt CAPTURED

Here is a copy of my bank statement..
Notice THREE charges for $14.95. I don't see any room in this for any free month credits. I just see Nevrax or YOU trying to punish me because of personal beliefs. Or simply because I live in America.

08/22/2006 CHECKCARD 0818 SAGA OF RYZOM INTERNET 74547************** $14.95

08/15/2006 CHECKCARD 0812 SAGA OF RYZOM INTERNET 74547************** $14.95

07/17/2006 CHECKCARD 0712 SAGA OF RYZOM INTERNET 74547************** $14.95



Second.. I was probing your Network?? This is a false claim you've just made.
And feel free to report it to anyone, FBI, DEA, ISP what ever.. I simply pinged your network to see if my IP was blocked, and when it failed I changed my IP. I did not alter the packet size of the ping.
(Which it states in
" [FAQ] Ryzom Launcher Error Codes and Messages".. Error Code 1
- no connection to the login server
- check firewall settings and ensure the game ports are allowed through
- can also happen when there are network problems along the path, so check local network and try doing a ping plot or tracert to 213.208.119.98
") ... If that is Illegal, then I guess I'm in some trouble..

Third.. Rude behavior.. I was simply joking around in Universe chat when I was told not to. (note I said nothing offensive, If I did enlighten me. As I recall the only rule I was breaking was simply typing in universe about non-game related issues). I then proceeded to ask why we cannot chat in universe if no one is asking questions. I sent a tell and continued my conversation with a GM who egged me on and pushed all the right buttons. While OTHERS continued to speak freely in Universe channel.

"Cover a mans eye and show him a selected section of any encounter of any kind and you can pursuede the viewer to believe what ever you want them to." It's how the News works here, and I'm sure there as well.. But I dare you to show me the whole picture, with all the angles. Including other people's conversations in Universe channel.

Also I would like you post the conversation I had about continuing usage for the rest of my month after my account was cancelled.

Now, I want you to explain to me why there is 3 charges for $14.95 on my account. Thank you. And you have my address. Feel free to continue this in email.

[j090n]

By the way, the Better Business Bureau does not have any jurisdiction over non US companies. For that matter it has no legal jurisdiction over American companies.

lol.. You are correct. They have no Legal jurisdiction. However you may want to take a look around this site

https://odr.bbb.org/odrweb/public/GetStarted.aspx

click the link marked

"Click here for more detailed BBB Complaint Acceptance Guidelines."

I would classify this as a Buyer/Seller related issue.

[Zerlin]

lol.. You are correct. They have no Legal jurisdiction. However you may want to take a look around this site

https://odr.bbb.org/odrweb/public/GetStarted.aspx

click the link marked

"Click here for more detailed BBB Complaint Acceptance Guidelines."

I would classify this as a Buyer/Seller related issue.

Again, the BBB is US and Canada and is an arbitration type of thing. Nevrax is French and Bibit is German. BBB does not have any local offices in those countries to forward any complaint to.

Have you even tried emailing billing-ee@ryzom.com with your problems about your account? Or even just replying to the invoice that you get in your email will get to the right folks.

[rundll32]

I just see Nevrax or YOU trying to punish me because of personal beliefs. Or simply because I live in America.

How exactly do you see that, if there's been a billing mistake it will be a mistake and nothing more. The fact that you've been reprimanded for being an ass in game is just clouding your view on the matter.

MM - Massively Multiplayer, oddly enough I doubt it would be good business to start discriminating against players based on their location. Why bother when they can get you on ingame conduct eh

And what free month are you even talking about? No where in what you have quoted does it say anything about getting a free month. The game is free to play on Ruins of Silan. To join the mainland you pay $ 14.95 and your account will be credited with 1 extra month. Which is exactly what you got, from reading your bank charges. You paid the initial 14.95 to convert your trial game to a full subscription account and gain a months play time, then a month later you paid another 14.95 (giving you another months playtime). Then you were charged again shortly after this second payment, at around the same time as your account was banned. Having never been banned, I dont know if charging you what appears to be a banning fee is intentional, if it is, that amuses me greatly.

Furthemore why exactly are you discussing this in a public forum...just a thought, but contacting the billing department might be slightly more effective than leaving posts for the entertainment of the playerbase and gms.

[totnkopf]

As I recall the only rule I was breaking was simply typing in universe about non-game related issues). I then proceeded to ask why we cannot chat in universe if no one is asking questions. I sent a tell and continued my conversation with a GM who egged me on and pushed all the right buttons. .

considering we have some of the best CSR found in any game, I highly doubt they 'egged you on'. What they probably did was said something that you didn't want to hear. The CSR found in Ryzom is by far and away the best in any MMO (upon writing this I've been waiting over 2 hours for a GM to take my ticket in SWG.... teh suck...)
Considering they're the GMs of the game, why would you even question them? You've admitted that you were doing something wrong... then you went and argued about how that thing you were doing wrong should be allowed. I fail to see what they did wrong here...

And Rund, hit the nail on the head... no company would randomly start targeting people to harrass or attempt to steal money from. Those companies tend to be temporary and don't have a long history of satisfied customers. If you have an issue they've provided the email several times. No one here is all that interested in what happened or not should we really be making it all public (not to mention you're not going to get any support from anyonehere... we all play this game and most of us have had interaction with the CSR and know them to be fair, helpful people.)

EDIT: another thing. This game has a good number of US players, myself included, so all the BS about them going after you for being American has no basis. Personal beliefs? I fail to see how those are even reltated to a financial matter. Please, do us all a favor and just email them and keep yourself off the forums.
You also realize that if you've prolly just given up your complaint with the BBB by claiming they discriminating against you because you are American (on top of the fact that both companies you seem to have beef with are foreign). Should of read that BBB link a bit better, if ya ask me....