Dodge armor mechanics?

[dranek]

You guys are missing the point that previously you could dodge 80-90% of attacks against an equal level creature, it was boosted that much by armor. It wasn't shown on the character screen then but it was extremely effective. I would spend the countless hours digging because I knew at the end of the day I would have the best dodge suit possible and it made a HUGE difference. Currently you get the same 1 dodge bonus from 0/100 dodge all the way to 99/100 dodge. Until you make an item out of 100/100 and flip it to 2 dodge which is a measly 1% chance to dodge vs. an equal level creature. The base chance to dodge just for being equal level is 35%. The WORST light armor in the game boosts it to 38% (rounds up). While the absolute best boosts it to 40%. I don't know about you but a 2% increase neither motivates me, or changes what my character is capable of in combat. They totally removed this aspect to creating defensive characters, and as a result wont get this player back as the character I would be resubscribing is designed around an option they chose to toss out instead of balance. You may enjoy playing a game where the only effective tank is shield/heavy armor/parry based, but I remember differently.

[rushin]

combat has gone through several major revamps since beta so its not reasonable to take one change in isolation and say its ruined the game for you. the whole dynamic has changed, you aren't seeing the big picture at all.

playing a tank in light armor is silly, sorry but it is. you have far far less hp than those wearing med and heavy, and bugger all protection, max is 25% i think compared to 60% in ha. You will only get protection and high vs that high by using a lot of boss mats as well as supreme dug to make said armor.

just to confirm though you are not going to resub because now you cant dodge 80-90% of attacks? *rolls eyes*

[tylarth]

was dropped in patch 1 iirc nov '04?

[iphdrunk]

* guerrilla mode on - sneaky camouflage wish list attack kungfu*
Just suggesting (please devs), maybe something can be done about supreme Light Armors and make them worth having? In my humble opinion, there is very little demand for it, and it's imho not really worth it, the difference between PF and MaxVs does it justify going from a set of choice to a set of sup other than the +2 dodge? When the first spells resists were mentioned it was suggested that other than jewels maybe armors would also have resists; but this was dropped.

other common craft braches: Jewels PvP supreme sets are noticeable, weapons speed and damage can be way better on a supreme weapon, without mentioning amplifiers -- and supreme heavy armors get nice PF and MaxVs without mentioning the +3 parry per piece.

Maybe +3 dodge per piece for supremes? to get a +2 you need basically "spiced" choice...

Other than durability -- which can be optimized for using regular mats-- and a biiiiit more protection, why would a pure forager or even crafter invest on a supreme light armor? I do think they are merely bonusholders, and when grinding, players even craft naked just not to wear them off....

Honestly, only on very few occasions I've had the pleasure to craft supreme light armors, and always been because: a) player had an excess of supreme mats and "why not" or very specific requirements (e.g. +2 dodge black or +2 dodge, almost 100% PF)

* guerrilla mode off - sneaky camouflage wish list attack kungfu*



Disclaimer: light armorer.

[tylarth]

tho the limiting factors for LA mean not all are in the same LA, as there is little difference between a modest and a fantastic LA set, and tbh i'd rather the sup mats contribute to MA or HA, in those, the individual is expecting to be hit more often.

[iphdrunk]

tho the limiting factors for LA mean not all are in the same LA, as there is little difference between a modest and a fantastic LA set, and tbh i'd rather the sup mats contribute to MA or HA, in those, the individual is expecting to be hit more often.

Precisely, and that's why Imho light armor has to have a niche where it excels , not necessarily protection against melee attacks. Right now, using yelkoo moss for a Light Armor looks like a waste, but e.g. you hesitate whether to use madakoo eyes for an amp or a jewel.

All in all, today there is no much difference between a light armor choice and a supreme, and I wish there was, although could be other aspects (even a +3 dodge, a slight improvement in cast failures, since you are supposed to move better, etc.)

[dranek]

Changing to a +3 would add 3% (rounded up from 2.5) to the chance to dodge which would then cap out at 43% vs. an equal level oponent. The mods need to be large to have any noticeable effect. If I were balancing it, dodge would start with a base of 15% (which is how much the accurate attack stanza can counter) and then be boostable by a max of 20 points per piece of light armor. This gives you room to have variability in item usefullness between varying levels of the dodge materials and cap out at a maximum 65% dodge rate. In this formula, equipment, and consequently the materials it's made from, play the largest determining factor. You would have to change the binary effect of ignore armor for this to co exist with heavy armor in PvP, and adjust the penalty to dodge while casting to ensure they're as squishy as desired (I don't know the math behind that one). If you want to have a game with options, you have to think "equal but different". They were thinking "It takes time to balance encounters to 3 different styles of defense, so we'll remove the player's ability to significantly change 2 and just balance around absorption". That's bad design.

[sehracii]

If you want to have a game with options, you have to think "equal but different". They were thinking "It takes time to balance encounters to 3 different styles of defense, so we'll remove the player's ability to significantly change 2 and just balance around absorption". That's bad design.

They would have to change the entire crafting system.

As I said before, MAX dodge is *easy* to craft.
It *should* not be as effective as max absoption becase that is incredibly hard to craft.

They ARE balanced pretty well on the terms of you get out what you put in.


If you wanted to make dodge more effective, you would need to make it harder to craft. That is a huge project that would reworking the entire craft system.

[dranek]

They would have to change the entire crafting system.

As I said before, MAX dodge is *easy* to craft.
It *should* not be as effective as max absoption becase that is incredibly hard to craft.

They *should* change the entire crafting system It has the potential to be wildly complex with trade offs between the different modifiers based on what materials you put in. They dumbed it down instead to have 1 or 2 modifiers that completely control the item's usefullness so any materials not boosting them are worthless beyond gaining craft xp. They had to do this because of the materials that add to everything. With the 10 or so modifiers available, an item with 10 capped mods would be vastly different from one with 2 capped mods if all the mods were equally usefull. But what if they had implemented uses for all the mods instead of "super mats"? What if there were types of creatures that dodged so often it was useless to fight them without a weapon that heavily reduced their dodge modifier? But you couldn't create such a weapon without sacrificing weapon speed or damage so it became usefull situationally. What if instead of making the dodge modifier on LA useless they had given some creatures the ability to hit through it every time? What if they had made certain creatures hit extremely fast but make them convert a small % of their damage into healing the target so a heavy absorption fighter's defense was more important? I think someone originally planned for a lot more variety in this game.

As it is now these fluff modifiers only serve to give a slight bonus to those who have the all modifying mats. The fundamental usefullness of the items doesn't change as long as you fill up speed/dmg/absorption. So everyone uses items made for the same purpose. It isn't any more difficult to forage an absorbtion heavy material than it is to harvest a dodge heavy. The dodge heavy is just worthless.

[sehracii]

It isn't any more difficult to forage an absorbtion heavy material than it is to harvest a dodge heavy. The dodge heavy is just worthless.

You can't forage Protection Factor mats. They only come from creatures (bosses for choice+). That's why the dodge is easy to craft and the protection is hard to craft.