Where is the pvp challenge?

[rob01]

Where is the challenge in killing an unarmed digger in 1 or 2 button presses?

It's because of this reason and a couple others that i've decided to quit with Jool. I've tried to see it from all perspectives and it just seems as though the people who play this game in such a fashion are playing a completely different one from me. I'm not even directing comments at specific people or factions or guilds as I've seen it happen everywhere..and (upsettingly) in situations where i thought that some players' behaviour would be 180 degrees to what it turned out to be.

I really hope things turn a corner.

[rushin]

The challenge is to prevent the other fighters killing your 'soft' targets, if your sides harvesters are being killed it is the poor defence provided by your own side, afterall the objective is to both build and prevent temple construction. And to dig without protection is to invite yourself to be killed because you are an easy target, you are after all building the enemy structure. There is not shame in killing diggers as that is all part of the conbined effort to succeed in your own temple being built 1st and condemning the others to history. If you are in the FvF zone you are taking part in a war and are a target.

exactly. what's needed is more teamwork. Diggers need the fighters guarding them, if all the ppl fighting are only interesting in killing the other faction and not protecting the diggers then everyone is losing out really. the temples will take much longer to build, the diggers will get nuked a lot more and get a bit miffed, etc, etc.

[boinged]

Exactly what Rushin said.

Also a problem with this event is that diggers/crafters have a positive overall effect (+% to your temple construction rate) and fighters have a negative overall effect (-% to your opposition temple). So even on the same side there are two 'factions' and some of the discussion can get heated there.

TBH it's not the ganking of harvesters I have a problem with (although it isn't very nice from an OOC perspective) it's the lack of common sense I see sometimes.

E.g. Kami are behind on construction and then Kami fighters get angry when we try and broker a peace when at that time in that zone we totally outnumber their diggers.

E.g. Karavan take the middle but then spread out through the zone losing it again. All their diggers get wiped by a couple that make it through to the middle.

E.g. The fighters warn of incoming and the diggers do nothing. One more healer would have kept the position.

E.g. The fighters warn of incoming when in fact they're pushing the enemy back and end up stretching their side out. Any diggers that respond just waste their time and the overall effect is negative to their factions build rate.

E.g. It's very difficult to enforce a peace treaty on people from your own side - (you can refuse to heal peace-breakers and deal with the backlash). It's very easy to break that peace so you can get some honor points and log off leaving a day of diplomacy in ruins.

E.g. Our fighters killing their harvesters while our harvesters are getting killed by their fighters. Net result: less temple parts built, lower rewards and annoyed diggers who have just given up on this event.

The challenge is in addressing these issues. Faction chat has helped, now it's down to our teamwork.

[sofiaoak]

This isn't quite the same ground, and it is a fair point.
Say one thing, do (and pursue) another.

I just wondering, why You try explain or even ask, when no-one is listening. I have tryed this same on two different game. PvP in today games ain't anyting else than gang banging. There is only a few games where is somekind of respect in PvP communities, so they created rules how to behave. Saga of Ryzom doesn't support controlled PvP communities. It's all about open PvP without any limits in behaviors. You know this, so why ask or explain?

[grimjim]

I just wondering, why You try explain or even ask, when no-one is listening. I have tryed this same on two different game. PvP in today games ain't anyting else than gang banging. There is only a few games where is somekind of respect in PvP communities, so they created rules how to behave. Saga of Ryzom doesn't support controlled PvP communities. It's all about open PvP without any limits in behaviors. You know this, so why ask or explain?

I don't think I understand your question, but I'll try.

Why explain or ask? In the hopes that people will actually listen or understand or comprehend what's being lost in all this.

We used to have, mostly, community respect and maturity here, a lot of that's gone out of the window with this PvP but it is, really, only down to a scant handful of antisocial players on both sides that this doesn't have a much more amicable (and successful) atmosphere. Naming and shaming would be pretty easy and/or they could (and should) be censured under the game's CoC and Courtesy Policy which don't seem to be being applied at the moment.

Ryzom didn't really HAVE a PvP element in the way you speak of it until recently, we had the roots which were a bit of an afterthought and community consensus appeared to be that ganking there was fairly unacceptable behaviour. The guilds that LIKED doing it had begun to limit their attacks to each other - keeping it consensual.

This event is botched, hopefully the PvP flag and a neutral political position will make things better later on, and more non PvP content will be in the pipeline alongside the gankfest to please other people.

Hopefully.

[michielb]

I just wondering, why You try explain or even ask, when no-one is listening. I have tryed this same on two different game. PvP in today games ain't anyting else than gang banging. There is only a few games where is somekind of respect in PvP communities, so they created rules how to behave. Saga of Ryzom doesn't support controlled PvP communities. It's all about open PvP without any limits in behaviors. You know this, so why ask or explain?

Maybe because he still thinks/hopes this community is mature and intelligent enough respect each other enough to allow for the different playstyles to exist side by side. Unfortuately some people enjoy one hit kills way too much. Makes you wonder why they aren't killing yubo's as they provide the same kind of challenge, but then it's not about challenge...

[sofiaoak]

This event is botched, hopefully the PvP flag and a neutral political position will make things better later on, and more non PvP content will be in the pipeline alongside the gankfest to please other people.

Hopefully.

I used words like consensual and non consensual PvP in past, but stoped using them resently because I learned that non consensual PvP doesn't exist in PvP players eyes. Yes, in PvP players eyes just been there and knowing it to be PvP, it's allways consent. So It's better use words like controller PvP than consent PvP. You can't have controlled PvP enviroment without game system supporting it. This is because handfull players can destroy the fun for others. So hoping doesn't work, nor does actions of those 99% of nice PvP players. No-one can controller the situations, if game system doesn't it.

That's why I asked. Players can't do anyting about the situation, only development team can do someting. Problem is that, if they don't understand the different of controlled PvP and open PvP, there isn't any hope.

[grimjim]

That's why I asked. Players can't do anyting about the situation, only development team can do someting. Problem is that, if they don't understand the different of controlled PvP and open PvP, there isn't any hope.

There has been more and more peace and cooperation as time has gone on, up to and including not rezzing the people on your own side who are causing problems.

It would be better if every character had free reign to heal or kill regardless of faction, then the problem children would likely be contained a lot better - at the risk of them attacking people on their own 'side' they disagreed with.

[mtsmith]

fighting actually damages your own side's chances as much as your enemy since you're drawing people away from crafting/harvesting and provoking more conflict and interruption to your own harvesters.

Most of us fighting and defending on the Karavan side are not really too interested in digging and crafting. Obviously, I have nothing against it as I need finished goods as much as the next guy, but I'm not interested at all in digging quality 50 materials for minimal honor or recognition when I can fight for a small period of time per day and stay in the top 20. I try to balance my selfishness somewhat, by honestly defending those of my faction who need my support. While I do spend plenty of times on the front lines, I am also quite willing to stay behind to protect our builders from Kincher and Kami attacks.

Jyudas, your references to "problem children" is actually a little offensive. In all truthfulness, you should be referring to yourself in the same manner, since you have been very vocal about ignoring directive the gods (Nevrax) and doing as you please. Meanwhile, the rest of us have had a great time attacking and defending against the Kami forces. What I've truly found interesting is that a preacher of peace, one who has proclaimed that he is a homist, a pacifist, and a life loving happy hippy, is seen participating daily in that which he claims to loath. All I can say is "Bravo!"; hypocracy suits you well, friend.

[rob01]

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