Will they have a use for the truckload of money they will get?
Is there housing to be built?
Unless private (as distinct from guild) crafters need money, they wont need to sell armor and weapons.
I guess they may need to buy equipment that they dont specialize in but apart from that where is the money sink?
If there is none then non- crafters who are not in guilds will find it very hard to get stuff.
Its pretty hard most of the time already.
What incentive will there be for crafters to sell?
Re: What incentive will there be for crafters to sell?
Thought about this, too.
*If* the hopefully shortly introduced player vendors work you could use the money to buy trashmats from other players to lvl your crafting. Still, if that suffices as moneysink is another question.
*If* the hopefully shortly introduced player vendors work you could use the money to buy trashmats from other players to lvl your crafting. Still, if that suffices as moneysink is another question.
RUN
[size=-1]Silverion, while being last person alive in the party[/size]
[size=-1]Silverion, while being last person alive in the party[/size]
Re: What incentive will there be for crafters to sell?
As it stands right now there is no incentive for crafters to sell other than supply players. Even with keeping prices low, just above what I could get for mats from vendor, I have over 10 million and nothing to do with it. The NPC merchants will help some but cash is relatively easy to get. Without substantial money sinks and reason for using money the economy is broken, which is critical part of the game.
I have noticed with the last patch and server resets that harvestors and crafters have been nerfed. The areas with decent harvest materials for crafting now have a group of agro mobs sitting on top if them. A friend of mine was exploring the prime roots last week and marked resource spots. After further exploring he found a GM and when asked how he got here and he replied it was easy to get through. He was wearing q100 supreme mats from the prime roots. The next day they bombed the prime roots with agro mobs.
Yesterday a GM watched me harvest material for awhile and then left. When the server was reset last night my source of choice mats is now camped by 10 agro mobs. I though this might be just a rotation but when the servers were reset today they were still there. Its apparent that players are leveling much faster than they wanted and are slowing them down by putting high level agro mobs in the way.
Its been almost 3 weeks since this game was released in the US and longer for Europe. For a game that is crafter focused we still do not have NPC vendors to list items.
For me there is no use in logging in anymore and I have canceled subscription. The only "goals" left are to grind armor lvls to supply mele with heavy armor and pile up my useless dappers. I had hope this game would fill my time until eq2, but it isnt even good enough to accomplish that.
I had hope for this game but it has taken paths very similiar to Horions in my opinion. There is not many players in this game and with EQ2 and WOW in the near future I hope they can pull it together. There is 3 less subs today ( me and 2 friends waiting for eq2). I really dont like to see MMORGS fail as it discourages others from trying.
Good luck to everyone in the game. And there is a void now for you Fyros heavy armor crafters to fill. Enjoy the useless dappers =).
Morax
Heavy Armor Crafting 102
Desert Foraging 132
I have noticed with the last patch and server resets that harvestors and crafters have been nerfed. The areas with decent harvest materials for crafting now have a group of agro mobs sitting on top if them. A friend of mine was exploring the prime roots last week and marked resource spots. After further exploring he found a GM and when asked how he got here and he replied it was easy to get through. He was wearing q100 supreme mats from the prime roots. The next day they bombed the prime roots with agro mobs.
Yesterday a GM watched me harvest material for awhile and then left. When the server was reset last night my source of choice mats is now camped by 10 agro mobs. I though this might be just a rotation but when the servers were reset today they were still there. Its apparent that players are leveling much faster than they wanted and are slowing them down by putting high level agro mobs in the way.
Its been almost 3 weeks since this game was released in the US and longer for Europe. For a game that is crafter focused we still do not have NPC vendors to list items.
For me there is no use in logging in anymore and I have canceled subscription. The only "goals" left are to grind armor lvls to supply mele with heavy armor and pile up my useless dappers. I had hope this game would fill my time until eq2, but it isnt even good enough to accomplish that.
I had hope for this game but it has taken paths very similiar to Horions in my opinion. There is not many players in this game and with EQ2 and WOW in the near future I hope they can pull it together. There is 3 less subs today ( me and 2 friends waiting for eq2). I really dont like to see MMORGS fail as it discourages others from trying.
Good luck to everyone in the game. And there is a void now for you Fyros heavy armor crafters to fill. Enjoy the useless dappers =).
Morax
Heavy Armor Crafting 102
Desert Foraging 132
Re: What incentive will there be for crafters to sell?
I think part of the problem stems from the way people level. As I see it, there isn't any incentive to speicalize or choose a particular path. I was speaking with a friend the other day, and he started as a 2 action mage and 1 action craft.
I later found out he didn't need to buy melee to level in melee. He could go out and bash and learn magic simutaneously. I, on the other hand, went melee/craft/forage because of a dislike of magic. I should have never taken the melee since it would have been much more intelligent to drop it all together and buit the tank mage, which is where this game seems to be gonig.
Especially in light of the way folks are leveling. The problem, from my stand point, is that experience points earned and trained do not come from a single source. You don't have to focus any where, you can do all things simultaenously without penalty.
Not only does this lead to only a single character type in the end, but everyone can also craft. Why should I see another player to build something when I can do it myself? With the rate people are leveling in all professions, this reduces further the need to rely on any one else's skills.
Perhaps this will change at the higher levels, but I doubt it. Of course, having a single point pool to draw experience from would only prolong the inevitable tank-mage. Seems to me, that they should have made any profession you didn't start with more expensive to learn all skills in it, not just the initial 50 down.
At any rate, there isn't an economy that I can see. Shoot, you don't have to rely on any one except in fighting the big mobs. Perhaps this was the design. Don't know. I guess I'm just a bit concerned right now in the game direction.
I later found out he didn't need to buy melee to level in melee. He could go out and bash and learn magic simutaneously. I, on the other hand, went melee/craft/forage because of a dislike of magic. I should have never taken the melee since it would have been much more intelligent to drop it all together and buit the tank mage, which is where this game seems to be gonig.
Especially in light of the way folks are leveling. The problem, from my stand point, is that experience points earned and trained do not come from a single source. You don't have to focus any where, you can do all things simultaenously without penalty.
Not only does this lead to only a single character type in the end, but everyone can also craft. Why should I see another player to build something when I can do it myself? With the rate people are leveling in all professions, this reduces further the need to rely on any one else's skills.
Perhaps this will change at the higher levels, but I doubt it. Of course, having a single point pool to draw experience from would only prolong the inevitable tank-mage. Seems to me, that they should have made any profession you didn't start with more expensive to learn all skills in it, not just the initial 50 down.
At any rate, there isn't an economy that I can see. Shoot, you don't have to rely on any one except in fighting the big mobs. Perhaps this was the design. Don't know. I guess I'm just a bit concerned right now in the game direction.
Re: What incentive will there be for crafters to sell?
Er... tank mage? To which lvl have you played so far? A mage trying to tank anything above lvl 50 will get wasted in no time.
RUN
[size=-1]Silverion, while being last person alive in the party[/size]
[size=-1]Silverion, while being last person alive in the party[/size]
Re: What incentive will there be for crafters to sell?
Yeah. I tried it for a little while. If you play around much outside of the newbie island, you'll quickly find out that tanking as a mage is a quick route to death points.shrike wrote:Er... tank mage? To which lvl have you played so far? A mage trying to tank anything above lvl 50 will get wasted in no time.
With crafting, it takes a long time to get to a decent level, and trying to get all your crafting up that high would take forever, and tons and tons of cash.
Re: What incentive will there be for crafters to sell?
So... what, you can literally level every single job to the highest level and have, potentially, a game full of players with the same stats?dkwraith wrote:Yeah. I tried it for a little while. If you play around much outside of the newbie island, you'll quickly find out that tanking as a mage is a quick route to death points.
With crafting, it takes a long time to get to a decent level, and trying to get all your crafting up that high would take forever, and tons and tons of cash.
That doesn't make sense.... I'm not even sure why someone would choose that direction for a game, designer/developer wise; not player-wise. Players (the ambitious ones), of course, want as powerful a character as they can make and will take advantage of everything available to them to do so. Rightfully so.
But, there's no limiting factor to this? I mean.. a finite amount of skill points to spend so you have to choose your skills more carefully in the long run?
Is there something that, perhaps, Nevrax has in mind to balance this all out over time?
I mean, if it's that wide-open, that any character - regardless of race or starting Action Packs - can level up everything to max and be no more or less powerful than any other character who does the same.. well.. that would seem like a bad design decision to me. It undermines specializing in any one thing. Especially because individuality is something so many look for in MMORPGs. I mean.. it'd be a bit discouraging to think that you spent all those hours and effort and everything to get yourself to be this great Mage.. just to see someone who has all the skills you do as a Mage *plus* can whack the bejesus out of everything with his top-notch sword, while wearing the best armor you can make in the game - that he crafted himself... from the best materials that he harvested all by his lonesome.
Anyway.. I don't know what Nevrax has planned, or how it all really pans out in the end-game, but I'm hoping that there's something more to it than that.
I wonder how that would affect gameplay by way of party dynamics? I don't know how parties work in this game, and maybe I'm thinking too much along the lines of paries in FFXI, having played that for so long. But, I guess a benefit to it would be that if a party is short any given type of character, a Mr. Multi-talented could step in and fill that role.
Then again, you could level every job in FFXI (though not simultaneously and "on the fly") and could learn any craft. But even in that context, you didn't have very many players trying to do *everything*. A: Because not everyone wanted to be a crafter, or a mage, or a fighter type, and B: because it takes alot of work to become highly skilled in any one of those. Most people focus on the style they prefer and stick to that, unless or until they became interested in trying something different; and I suppose there's no reason why the same wouldn't be true here.
Hmm.. I'd really like to learn some more about this.
Last edited by lupine04 on Sun Oct 10, 2004 4:09 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Re: What incentive will there be for crafters to sell?
The problem of crafting occurs mainly because the skill tree is quite complex whereas the skill point use I not.
is am at armor crafting 55 now but the points I earned there since 50 went into weapon crafting to get it to 50 also. The points I earn there could go inte jewel crafting etc.
If you where not only forced to build up your skills (p.e. armor crafting 1,2,3,... have to be bought one after the other making jumps a bit more expensive) but also to spend the skill points in the branch you earned them - it would make the crafter"caste" a more specialised breed.
An armor crafter lvl 100 would have start to jewellery the hard way if he had this at lvl 0 by the time armor crafting bores him....and talking about lvl 200+ there wouldn't me many jack-of-all-trades crafters if the system would work that way.
But what would that mean to the players? Not much at low levels because as long as the skill tree does not split neither does the skill point usage. Maybe at mid lvls it could be a bit annoying for some but it COULD start to provide more distinction amongst characters where one can become known as *the* heavy armor crafter or at high lvls even *the* heavy helmet crafter on a local basis. This COULD also make player items trading and mats trading more of a necessity and make the econnomy more lively.
btw: The programming is very clever as it even now allocates a lot of things we do (think about missions) - my vague idea of allocating skill points ONLY according to the skill tree could provide a *hidden* specialisation for fighters, harvesters and magicians too.
PS: Personally I started SoR ONLY because of the leveled playing field where ALL races had ALL classes to choose from and a character could train in EVERY field.
I think a lot of people thought the same way but lately it seems to me that infinite freedom does not satisfy 2 kind of people:
1. The ones who can define their characters only in terms of archetypes - these dont exist in SoR
2. The ones who want their character to excell at all cost in one field while being able to neglect anything else - this doesnt work in SoR
is am at armor crafting 55 now but the points I earned there since 50 went into weapon crafting to get it to 50 also. The points I earn there could go inte jewel crafting etc.
If you where not only forced to build up your skills (p.e. armor crafting 1,2,3,... have to be bought one after the other making jumps a bit more expensive) but also to spend the skill points in the branch you earned them - it would make the crafter"caste" a more specialised breed.
An armor crafter lvl 100 would have start to jewellery the hard way if he had this at lvl 0 by the time armor crafting bores him....and talking about lvl 200+ there wouldn't me many jack-of-all-trades crafters if the system would work that way.
But what would that mean to the players? Not much at low levels because as long as the skill tree does not split neither does the skill point usage. Maybe at mid lvls it could be a bit annoying for some but it COULD start to provide more distinction amongst characters where one can become known as *the* heavy armor crafter or at high lvls even *the* heavy helmet crafter on a local basis. This COULD also make player items trading and mats trading more of a necessity and make the econnomy more lively.
btw: The programming is very clever as it even now allocates a lot of things we do (think about missions) - my vague idea of allocating skill points ONLY according to the skill tree could provide a *hidden* specialisation for fighters, harvesters and magicians too.
PS: Personally I started SoR ONLY because of the leveled playing field where ALL races had ALL classes to choose from and a character could train in EVERY field.
I think a lot of people thought the same way but lately it seems to me that infinite freedom does not satisfy 2 kind of people:
1. The ones who can define their characters only in terms of archetypes - these dont exist in SoR
2. The ones who want their character to excell at all cost in one field while being able to neglect anything else - this doesnt work in SoR
Re: What incentive will there be for crafters to sell?
The fact that I can do anything without restriction is a major drawing feature of this game to me. People want to do it all. In every game I've played, they just roll up 8 atls so they can do it all. Want to craft, make a craft mule. Want to be a godlike magic user, I have my alt. They 2 box, they 3 box.
Sure I craft, and I forage, and I melee, and well I don't have any magic. Is there another character out there just like me? Nope. Crafting is a major time sink. Will there be players who can make every item in game and play 24/7. You bet, they do this in other games too. I can't make armor, and I can only make 2 weapons. There are things that I just don't have time to level up. I'll buy my armor from another player.
I only use pikes as my weapon when I fight. I see players with sword and daggers, double daggers, axes, maces, you name it. I don't feel that I'm the same as everyone else.
I like that people can fill different roles in a group. I hated that in DAoC I had to wait for hours for some specific healer, or offense mage, etc to fill out our group so we can hunt. There is bound to be a skill set out there that people can take on roles as needed and fill in those vacant areas so we don't have to wait hours to make that good exp group.
Sure I craft, and I forage, and I melee, and well I don't have any magic. Is there another character out there just like me? Nope. Crafting is a major time sink. Will there be players who can make every item in game and play 24/7. You bet, they do this in other games too. I can't make armor, and I can only make 2 weapons. There are things that I just don't have time to level up. I'll buy my armor from another player.
I only use pikes as my weapon when I fight. I see players with sword and daggers, double daggers, axes, maces, you name it. I don't feel that I'm the same as everyone else.
I like that people can fill different roles in a group. I hated that in DAoC I had to wait for hours for some specific healer, or offense mage, etc to fill out our group so we can hunt. There is bound to be a skill set out there that people can take on roles as needed and fill in those vacant areas so we don't have to wait hours to make that good exp group.
Re: What incentive will there be for crafters to sell?
Well I fight, craft, forage and don't use magic, so I must be just like Kisedd!
Um...wrong!
I will absolutely have to specialize if I ever want to achieve 250 skill in my main skills in my lifetime. Time may be the great equalizer but if you are like me, with limited playing time due to RL committments, then spreading yourself too thin will mean that you will never reach high levels in anything.
As an example, right now I can make all melee weapons except axes. Every time I make a 2h sword, 2h mace or pike the exp goes toward "generic" 2-hander melee crafting. But when I reach 100 skill the 2h crafting skills will branch. So to level up all 3 of those weapons from that point forward will take 3x the amount of time that it does now. Therefore I will likely need to choose which few I want to concentrate on.
Maybe someday someone will be capped in everything but that will take an insane amount of time. Most people will need to specialize in order to enjoy the high level game.
Kraak - Fyros Crafter of Fine Weapons
Um...wrong!
I will absolutely have to specialize if I ever want to achieve 250 skill in my main skills in my lifetime. Time may be the great equalizer but if you are like me, with limited playing time due to RL committments, then spreading yourself too thin will mean that you will never reach high levels in anything.
As an example, right now I can make all melee weapons except axes. Every time I make a 2h sword, 2h mace or pike the exp goes toward "generic" 2-hander melee crafting. But when I reach 100 skill the 2h crafting skills will branch. So to level up all 3 of those weapons from that point forward will take 3x the amount of time that it does now. Therefore I will likely need to choose which few I want to concentrate on.
Maybe someday someone will be capped in everything but that will take an insane amount of time. Most people will need to specialize in order to enjoy the high level game.
Kraak - Fyros Crafter of Fine Weapons