Community opinion on botting

[enemy123]

until reading this thread i never even thought about botting and i honestly think its unfair and i dont mean in the sense there getting high lvls fast i mean in the sense that i worked a hell of alot of hours digging and crafting playing into the early hours of the morning to get my well earned lvls and the benefits they bring me, what i find unfair is that someone else can basically skip all that work and grind and just get the benefit.

personnaly i think whoever bots should have there character deleted and a ban on top.

[svayvti]

Botting is bad, but so is designing gameplay so repetitive that it can be botted.

[sprite]

Botting is bad, but so is designing gameplay so repetitive that it can be botted.

Any game can be botted to a degree if you're smart enough.

[aylwyne]

I, for one, think Nevrax seems to be more aware of the problem -at least lately - regarding the use of third party software (botting). It has happened not only on the NA/EE shards and they seem to be taking the appropriate measures, as the news :


July 8, 2005.
Policy : Change in the Code of Conduct - Third Party Software by Vince (Head of Customer Support) I would like to remind you that the use of third party software, aka macroing, in order to abuse the gameplay is forbidden in Ryzom. The Code of Conduct will be modified to state it clearly, very shortly. Even if it is already stated.

"You will not attempt to interfere with, hack into or decipher any transmissions to or from the servers running Ryzom and on any Ryzom Services or Nevrax Services."
"You may not exploit any bugs in Ryzom and you may not communicate the existence of exploitable bugs (either directly or through public posting) to any other user of Ryzom but report it to Nevrax."
This rule is to be enforced on our servers next week, as a result any account caught abusing Ryzom with one of those tools could end up being either suspended or indefinitly banned from all Ryzom services.

The funny thing is, this wording doesn't in any way state that third party macroing tools are prohibited. I'm sure there are tools out there that can truly hack into the network communication stream between the client and server, which is what that policy states is against the rules. However, as far as I know, most macroing tools simply control the mouse and keyboard to perform a series of repetetive tasks. The do not "hack into or decipher any transmissions to or from the servers running Ryzom and on any Ryzom Services or Nevrax Services."

Seems to me if they want to change the policy, at least change it to something more appropriate to the various tools people really use.

[mrshad]

I do not use nor condone the use of unnatended macroing; however, if your game is so repetitive that unnatended macroing can be employed and be difficult to detect, then you seriously need to revamp the game design.

A really good game would be engaging enough that no one would want to use bots.

[sprite]

A really good game would be engaging enough that no one would want to use bots.

No offense, but name one "major" MMO that doesn't have *any* bots whatsoever. Better yet, name one major "recent" game (so no saying Pong) that has no cheats.

If you can't name any, does that mean there's no really good games? Even if you can name a few, how many "bad games" does that make?

Put even more simply... If a game has any reward in it, some people will do whatever they can to make it easier to get

[mrshad]

No offense, but name one "major" MMO that doesn't have *any* bots whatsoever.

That is *the* major failing of every major MMO to date, isn't it? I am not saying SoR is any better or worse than the other offerings in this respect, but, it doesn't change the fact that a really good game would make people want to be there to enjoy the journey, not just see the end.

Better yet, name one major "recent" game (so no saying Pong) that has no cheats.

That certianly depends on how you define 'cheat', but it really has nothing to do with my point. Whether the cheat exists or not has no bearing on if players want to use it. Most mature people know that cheating ruins the fun of the game, and really good game will draw those people in, they will be so enthralled with the game that they won't even think about cheating to get through.

If you can't name any, does that mean there's no really good games? Even if you can name a few, how many "bad games" does that make?

I can list several really good games...again, the presence of 'cheats' has no bearing on the desire to use them. If the game is so difficult that there is no way around the challenge *but* to cheat, then it is not a good game. If it is so easy that there is no sense of accomplishment when the challenge is met, then it is not a good game. Sweet, sweet balance...

Put even more simply... If a game has any reward in it, some people will do whatever they can to make it easier to get

Ahh...some people...who would we blame without them?

Again, a really good game makes the player enjoy the journey...the proccess, if you prefere. The game must be fun while playing it, not just after reaching a goal. The journey itself must be fulfilling, as well as the destination.

But, that is only for really good games...MMO tend more towards being graphical chat clients. Eventually something really great will come along, and it will change everything.

But...errrmm...unatended macroing is bad, still....and..uh..should be punished will..err..MORE HARVESTING!!! Yeah...they will be sure to hate that.

[madnak]

There is no way to create a game that can't be botted, that's true. And those who claim that a game should be constructed so as to be unexploitable have probably not done a lot of programming.

However, it is possible to have a system where botting takes an extreme amount of effort. Still, the fact that harvest/craft are highly repetetive hardly justify the bots. In fact, because that entails more work for those who get there authentically, it almost makes botting worse.

I believe in a "three strike" sort of thing mentioned earlier. Something like a 24-hour ban on first offense, a skill reset on second offense, and character deletion on third offense.

Due to the fact that it's never possible to be 100% sure when someone is botting some leeway should be allowed on the first offense. Some players may also not realize that botting is against the rules (or the extent of its impact). However, going twice is just asking for trouble.

[mrshad]

There is no way to create a game that can't be botted, that's true. And those who claim that a game should be constructed so as to be unexploitable have probably not done a lot of programming.

You are quite right, Saiwin. I am of the opinion that there is a pattern in just about everything. If you can find that pattern, you can make a program that follows it. My point, is that the pattern should be intriguing enough to make you want to be part of it.

[carrie]

I believe in a "three strike" sort of thing mentioned earlier. Something like a 24-hour ban on first offense, a skill reset on second offense, and character deletion on third offense.

I'd like to see Saiwin's suggestions implemented.