[DEV] Rebalancing changes - Proposition

[holina]

Proposed changes look good, I'd say even the 20% increase in double missile cost is justified - mages are insanely powerful atm, both nukers and healers.

LOL, a good healer has a hard time keeping up with you melee experts, who just knows all about everything in the game.

So dont come crying to the healers or blaming them when you cant fight mobs anymore because a healer cant keep everyone up. DP is so much fun to work off with ppl crying at healers, "you didnt heal me fast enough, waaaaa"

I am the healer in the team usually, maybe secondary nuker and certainly not the tank - seeing as my healing is 162 and my melee 90.

I did write this in my post you quoted from, but you obviously missed that.

If you want to flame me at least try to make sense, don't just make things up, ok? Thanks.

I understand you don't like the changes, you might have been able to convince me that 20% increase in cost isn't needed, would you have made some effort, but after this don't bother trying, flaming doesn't get you my respect.

[mmatto]

I would like to see stamina and sap regeneration rates multiplied by factor like 4, maybe even more. Possibly, this might come instead of increasing sap&stam healing powers, not sure about that. Regeneration rates does not play much role in combat now and I don't like that. Note that I propose increasing of stam and sap regeneration and not hp, we are not trolls afterall. HP regen could be doubled in favor of solo play, but that is another topic.

Increasing regen rates would have at least following effects:
- help healer a little bit
- encourage to use stam&sap credits/boosts instead of hp
- allow casters to maintain casting moderate spells with just sap regen

Another improvement that could boost these effects would be tweaking hp,stam and sap credit drain on corresponding energies. Might be good idea to make hp credit more costly but decrease cost of stam&sap credits. Problem that I see here is that it adds caster's benefit from extra hp from melee skills compared to a pure mage.

You may have noted by now that I don't like idea of using hp credit as easiest way of crediting actions.

@holina maybe you could add weapon, amp and used stanzas as variables in calculations. That should allow easy experimentation.

EDIT: It might be even worth experimenting to remove fighter hp credit and increase hp credit cost for mages.

[ariwen]

my only frustration is ppl stating healers have too much power now, and are nerfing xp. Well excuse me while I point out, that if everyone in the gruop is lvl 150 including the healer there wont be nerfing, plus if you have more then 2 ppl in a group you need back up healers,

so melee armor will take more dmg, thus need on healer wont be as much. They didnt say stamina would change did they? healer still needed. Plus a 20 % increase on points useage for healers, plus time delay, So what is my point How is all this going to help the healer???

Yes maybe elem have too much power, but I dont really see how healer have too much power.

[grimjim]

I don't know if you were at the PvP event in the Matis arena today, but that's where the factor of healers having too much power really shows.

In PvE scenarios its still somewhat too powerful as it can heal more HP than anyone can even _have_! In PvP, when we're talking about teams, it makes it an act of tedium and nobody outside melee's and nukers really has much of a role to play.

One heal and the mage you spent 4-5 hits knocking down is right back up again.

my only frustration is ppl stating healers have too much power now, and are nerfing xp. Well excuse me while I point out, that if everyone in the gruop is lvl 150 including the healer there wont be nerfing, plus if you have more then 2 ppl in a group you need back up healers,

so melee armor will take more dmg, thus need on healer wont be as much. They didnt say stamina would change did they? healer still needed. Plus a 20 % increase on points useage for healers, plus time delay, So what is my point How is all this going to help the healer???

Yes maybe elem have too much power, but I dont really see how healer have too much power.

[ariwen]

I don't know if you were at the PvP event in the Matis arena today, but that's where the factor of healers having too much power really shows.

In PvE scenarios its still somewhat too powerful as it can heal more HP than anyone can even _have_! In PvP, when we're talking about teams, it makes it an act of tedium and nobody outside melee's and nukers really has much of a role to play.

One heal and the mage you spent 4-5 hits knocking down is right back up again.

So what is a healer to do? spin themselves stupid healing ppl. That the point of higher lvl spells. But again I will try to point out.......

In a group of 3 ppl one being the healer, all lvl 150, the healer is working his/her backside off to keep everyone up and out of DP.

Now just how is this fair to take that away from the healer??????????????????????????
If you take these abilities away from the healer, you will end up with DP more often or they will need to take the punch out of the mobs, and that wont be any fun. Go into a fight with ppl the same lvl you are, do nothing but heal, then tell how healers have it easy. But I am talking you being the only healer in a group of ppl your same lvl,

[sidusar]

I agree that it doesn't give a good picture, but I believe it is an accurate one.Only 12 applies, as stam and sap are manageble, if difficult, to maintain during a battle, I am refering specifically to the current set up for mobs, so I expect those who take the "Ampless Test" to fight mobs without special attacks, and the doubleing of the bomb affect does not matter, because if your heal is your highest, you cannot afford to cast a heal-bomb on a regular basis.

I don't agree only 12 applies. Yes, sap and stam are manageble at the moment, but making these spells more effective will make it more manageble, thus giving the healer more time to cast restore life. So 5 does apply.
Doubling bomb won't help a party of two or three, only a large party, so agreed there.
You mention the mobs special attacks are unfair, change 3 in the list says we'll get protection against them, so that definitely applies too.
And remember the 2 seconds extra casting time and 20% extra cost only apply to double missiles, so I believe a better test would be: Keep you amps on, but only cast single missile spells, and use half your maximum healing spell to simulate the halving of healing power (so if your highest is heal 14, which heals 1035 hp, only use heal 10, which heals 510 hp). Then go out with a fighter and elemental mage who are the same level you are in healing, and fight mobs that give the three of you 3k experience. I don't think you'll have any trouble keeping your teammates alive.

I don't care for PvP either, I'm in favor of this nerf because I believe heal life is overpowered in PvE, and because I hope nerfing it will force us to rethink group tactics rather than just count on the healers to keep us up no matter what we do. As you point out, right now we need heal life to be overpowered because everything else we have is underpowered in PvE, but I'm willing to trust the devs will implement the other proposed changes in a way that it compensates for the heal nerf. Mostly because if they don't, I assume you won't be the only one for which the game will be over.

so melee armor will take more dmg, thus need on healer wont be as much. They didnt say stamina would change did they? healer still needed. Plus a 20 % increase on points useage for healers, plus time delay, So what is my point How is all this going to help the healer???

Yes maybe elem have too much power, but I dont really see how healer have too much power.

My healing is only a few levels lower than my elemental and my melee, and seeing how the last two were mostly solod up to 125, I'd say of all the time I've spent in a team I've spent the majority healing. Please don't assume that just because someone is in favor of a heal nerf, it means they never take the healer role.

They did say stamina would change. They said heal stamina would be improved to be better than the revamped heal life, which means almost doubled compared to what it is now.

Here's how healing is overpowered:
As a level 150 melee I cannot hunt great kinchers together with a lvl 200+ healer and a lvl 200+ elementalist. I go down too fast, I can barely get a hit in, and my taunt doesn't work on them.
As a level 150 elementalist I cannot hunt great kinchers together with a lvl 200+ tank and a lvl 200+ healer. My spells won't hit often enough, I might be able to get a few hits in, but I won't be able to do decent damage and will basicly just be leeching exp.
As a level 150 healer I can easily hunt great kinchers with a lvl 200+ tank and a lvl 200+ elementalist. Provided the elementalist also throws me a heal every once in a while, I have no trouble keeping the tank up and keeping the nuker full of sap.

[rushin]

healing *is* overpowered. As stated above a lv150 healer can happily keep up with the demands of a lv200+ tank and ele.

Currently being a healer is pain in the ass because u basically are being abused by the team. everyone relies on a healer to keep the group together, there are no tactic's in this; ele's nuke away, a token tank dies a lot and the healer stares at the team window and manically presses their heal keys, only to get frowned on if they let ppl drop. not a lot of fun but everyone does it because there is no reason not to.

If these changes go through as is it will probably(tm) force teams to actually act as teams and work together. sure healing will be more challenging but everyone is going to need to change they way they fight and use their credits more effectively. (and maybe use more healers)

What would be a nice addition imo is some kind of heal DoT or should that be HoT

[sidusar]

What would be a nice addition imo is some kind of heal DoT or should that be HoT

I believe I've suggested this before and have also seconded it when someone else suggested it, but I'll voice my support again. However, healers are usually healing more than one person and more than one kind of energy. So for this to relieve healers of the constant clicking they currently have to do, they would need at least a double HoT spell to heal both health and stam/sap with one link. Or even better, the ability to link with multiple people at once.

[mmatto]

One more thing, these changes should be tested with starting characters too, and lvl 50 and 100 characters. We might get problems if changes are tested only on lvl 150 ATS characters. Low lvl healer may get unusable because of these changes as lowest healing spells ain't that powerful, it is the progression that makes healing spells powerful later on.

Rushin, my thoughts exactly

[akicks]

Now just how is this fair to take that away from the healer??????????????????????????

I'm sorry, the only time you should be working you arse off in this situation is if a great kincher or two aggro you.

You can heal way, way too much, and can sit back and relax most of the time in game.

I personally don't think any heal should be able to do more than an equivilent elemental spell.

That means 3k heals at a max for level 250 spells. Then you'll have to work your arse off (which will make pvp AND pve interesting, and harder to do without breaking your back).