Suggestions: Replacing mutable terms.

[grimjim]

There's a problem when people are (generally) complaining about something or arguing where we all seem to use the same terms to mean different things.

Could people perhaps be more specific by what they mean when mentioning the following things in posts?

1. 'Content' - When you say 'lack of content' what do you _mean_? Do you mean there aren't quests (in the style of another MMO, rather than missions or encyclopaedia quests)? Do you mean there aren't enough equipment options? Do you mean there aren't enough lands, races, events? Be specific because saying 'there isn't content' is a) Patently a lie, coz there is, just not what you're thinking about and b) I'm not sure what the bloody hell you mean. If you're more specific someone might think an idea is cool.

2. PvP - If you're advocating or damning it, WHAT are you advocating or damning? Any player on player combat at all? Pointless ganking? Faction or guild PvP? What? (Guilty here myself).

3. 'Endgame' - When you say there's no endgame, what are you referring to, or if you say you're engaging in the endgame, what do you mean? PvP/Outposts? High level 'questing'/boss slaying? What? Je ne comprends pas!

Fanx!

[oldmess]

1. 'Content' - When you say 'lack of content' what do you _mean_? Do you mean there aren't quests (in the style of another MMO, rather than missions or encyclopaedia quests)? Do you mean there aren't enough equipment options? Do you mean there aren't enough lands, races, events? Be specific because saying 'there isn't content' is a) Patently a lie, coz there is, just not what you're thinking about and b) I'm not sure what the bloody hell you mean. If you're more specific someone might think an idea is cool.

I would like to 2nd the notion of a moratorium on the word "content".

"Gosh I wish there were more missions or more complex missions" is much more meaningful.

"Gosh I wish there were more events or I wish the events were longer lasting things that everyone could participate in instead of just those that happen to be on for a given 1 hour window" is much more meaningful.

"Gosh I wish the goals in this game were more long term (missions are quick and level grinding really aren't goals)" is much more meaningful.

[aylwyne]

I've said much the same thing re: content in the past. Here's a thread I started discussing exactly what I'd like to see for 'content':

http://www.ryzom.com/forum/showthread.php?t=15105

As far as PvP, I'm not against the notion as a whole. I am quite discouraged, however, over most people's (including Nevrax, it seems) assumption that PvP automatically means combat. Why not have player vs. player competition in areas other than combat. For more details on my ideas, you can see this old thread (post #2):

http://www.ryzom.com/forum/showthread.php?t=14738

[aelvana]

Content is stuff to do beyond grinding and exploring. From all I've heard it includes quests, multiplayer dungeons with a timed objective, a multiplayer triggerable event that will grant the whole team access to a new area, difficult structured events for 20+ people involving chains of killing MOBs for keys to next levels then killing 20 MOBs within X minutes to be teleported to the God which spawns 2 named adds at staged points during the fight, etc...

In Ryzom the only content I see really is simple quests and ... well even having to fight to say access Tryker, it's still not a new area full of new content, you can make a newbie and go there. Don't get me wrong, I love Ryzom, but I think that's content. We've all had different content in our different games, but basically I think it's stuff to do besides grinding and exploring.

Endgame just refers to content for max level players, which is typically much more difficult than lower level content, and there's typically a lot more of it than low level content, since it could be expected I think by most MMORPG makers that players will reach max level and want nothing but content at that point.

[micrix]

Content:It is not possible to deliver endless content without repetition. But many people seek for more possibilities to spend their time. Myself wants to hunt for food, wants to farm for food, wants to dig stones and cut trees for building a house. Wants to plant new, young trees to replace those i cutted down. Wants to travel for a week to reach snowcovered mountains. There is still content for me, but i do not always have enough time to play and just want to spend a hour or two with something i did not the last 4 weeks.

PvP: I want to defend my house and field against Kitin, Bodocs and Bandits. PvP must have the element of destruction and rebuilding. If any race attacks Windermeer and burns it down i would be there and defend it. And when Wyler calls i would be there and dig like hell to rebuild it. And when my neighbour calls for help against the evil l33t guild i will be there to defend and rebuild.

Endgame: Bad word this. As i understand, the endgame is "the game". All that happenes when you reached a certain level and know the game.

[larwood]

/sarcastic on

Ryzom has content issues due to PvP with no endgame or outposts, and those stupid high level quests and boss slayings really alter the gameplay for the RP'ers that get ganked.

/sarcaastic off

[michielb]

I played AO for over 2 years, it had missions, it had quests, it had static dungeons, instanced dungeons, it had "meaningfull" PvP, it had money sinks, it had land control, it had a good storyline, it had tuns and tuns of social items, it even had an real endgame....

And after a certain lvl it got boring as hell as all you could do was grind and camp and kill other players to take a piece of useless land from them (or be killed by them....)

Not sure if AO had "content" but it did very little to keep me entertained, the SoR community and the events team still do a far better job at that so what is everyone whining on about content?

[g00st]

how about making your own "content"?

[mrshad]

how about making your own "content"?

Because thre is a limited amout to what the players can do, and many of us have already done it.

Aelvana's ideas on 'content' are excellent.

A story line that involved the single player, or a small gorup of players in pre scripted quests would be really great.

I played AO for over 2 years

It must have entertained you at least a bit. right?

I played AO for a few months, I liked the content, I didn't neccisarily like the game.

I remember there was this series of quests that you could do in order to get a type of living armor, that was a lot of fun. I know SoR is built on the idea that there are no Phat Lewt drops, but maybe that is part of what is hindering 'content'...the availablility of a suitable reward. After all, why brave the Flaming Forest and kill the giant kipuker if all you get are some excelent mats that woudl be just as fast to dig?

I think we all know what we mean when we use the term 'content'; it means something other than the grind.

[aylwyne]

how about making your own "content"?

I feel this is one of the great weaknesses in the mmorpg genre. I think companies expect that they can simply provide a well designed landscape and set of mechanics (fighting, crafting, etc.) and that's enough. It's like they believe (for the most part) that simply having a bunch of real people playing characters on this backdrop will create an engaging environment for everyone.

Perhaps this is a carry over from the tabletop RPG. In that genre, you need very little to have a great time, just imagination for the most part. I think that's because it's much more personal. You're sitting there with your friends. You're there to entertain them as much as to be entertained.

In an online game, it's much more impersonal. People come there to be entertained much more than to entertain others. I'm not saying that's good or bad, just that it is.

I think that companies will start realizing that providing a visually stunning world and solid mechanics won't carry a game. As the game engines and underlying game mechanics become more commodotized, more energy will start being put into writing and producing an entertaining and engaging world that's not just a backdrop for players to have their fun in but that draws you in and makes you forget about the little experience bars.